Found a dead out today

[bwdenen]

Temperatures got up to mid 50's today so I did a thorugh check of the hives.  Found a dead out.  It's particulary frustrating because there is plenty of capped honey left inside.  In addition to the honey in the brood frames, I left a full 8 frame super full of capped honey on for the winter, and there are at least 5 frames still full.  Found some dead bees with their heads in the cells up int he super, thought that was weird.  I could see where they had moved honey down itno the brood boxes.  Now my question is, what is the best way to feed this honey to my remaining hives, or even to the new packages that I ordered?  I've read here that some folks scratch up the caps and put them on top of the inner cover under the outer cover.  Others say they extract it and mix it with some trapped pollen and feed it back that way.  Any suggestions?

[Country Heart]

New bee here...what exactly do you mean by a "dead out"?

[AllenF]

Dead out is a dead hive.    Lost the hive due to a low number of bees.  (due to mites or queen most likely)  They could not heat the cluster and could not get to the honey in the hive and starved.  I would just take the supers with honey frames and set them out in the open to get robbed out.   (easiest)   Or take the frames out and set them into hives that feel light.   Or save the frames in the freezer until when needed if other hives are doing fine.   Great start for splits or swarms.   

[FRAMEshift]

 Or take the frames out and set them into hives that feel light.   

That's what I would do.  And you can freeze the frames for a few days to kill wax moth eggs and then store them in tightly sealed bags or containers.

[alfred]

Sorry to hear about your hive. I had several die myself, it is a bummer. I plan to just use the frames as they are to put in my existing hive if they need it. I will also use them as is to give to swarms that I plan to capture.
Alfred

[bwdenen]

Thanks everyone.  I'm not into work I don't have to do so it's into the freezer until a couple of days before the packages arrive then what I don't use for will go for anything else that comes.  With any luck, Ohio won't have any more cold snaps and I the girls can get to work.  It's crazy though, they are predicting mid 70's this week and NOTHING is blooming here.

Thanks again.

[AllenF]

70's and nothing blooming, set the supers out and the girls will have them clean in no time.

[bwdenen]

The robbing has already begun!!  Went out to break down the hive and all the neighbors we over for lunch.  And re: the nothing blooming comment, I stand corrected.  While I was working on it, I noticed lots of white pollen being carried in.  I certaintly don't see anything but they found it.  Not so worried now.

[MTWIBadger]

You could also harvest it! I had an early dead hive with over 100 pounds of honey and I harvested 50 pounds which was some great tasting honey.

[BlueBee]

Yeah, what everybody else said  :)

I didn't see the girls bring in anything last week, but I also saw them bringing in some off white pollen up here today.  The snow crocus are blooming here, but that's all I see.  Maple buds are betting bigger, but no blooms yet.  The girls were drinking tons of water today and I know they're not overheating in Michigan in March!  This is a good sign  :)

Letting them rob out a dead out works well.  If they're still hungry (or light on stores) after the honey has been robbed, you can refill the combs with sugar water.  That works great in combs, bees really lap it up.

[windfall]

Last summer I asked about letting bees rob out feed filled comb. It seemed like a way for a beginner without an extractor to get some empty drawn comb to work with...
At that time I was told that the robbing bees will really make a mess of the comb and it was a bad idea, and that it might set off a "frenzy"

Now I have seen several references (here and other places) to the practice as a good one?

I am certainly curious to know as I have quite a few such frames from early deadouts. Some I can feed right into the remaining hives, but storing the rest would be a challenge, and I would really really like to have some empty to help with swarm control.

[FRAMEshift]

but storing the rest would be a challenge

If you can freeze the frames then you can store them in garbage bags indoors or outdoors.  You need to freeze the honey for 3 days to make sure everything gets frozen solid to remove eggs from pests.  Brood comb can be frozen for 1 day.

And if you need empties for swarm control, they don't have to be drawn.

[bwdenen]

You could also harvest it! I had an early dead hive with over 100 pounds of honey and I harvested 50 pounds which was some great tasting honey.

I thought about that but I made rookie mistake last Fall.  Thinking the hive would use up all of the stores I did not remove the super full of capped frames when I treated for Nosema so I am not comfortable extracting it.  Dumb dumb! dumb!!

I'm planning to freeze it then use it for my packages and any swarms I mght be lucky enough to capture. 

[BlueBee]

At that time I was told that the robbing bees will really make a mess of the comb and it was a bad idea, and that it might set off a "frenzy"

Now I have seen several references (here and other places) to the practice as a good one?

Conflicting info from bee keepers?  Say it isn't so  :)

Here's my take: 

I figure the girls are going to be out in this warm weather no matter what and there isn't much of any nectar here (sans a little crocus here and there), so they're liable to be attempting to rob the smaller colonies anyways.  So I say why not give them something else to rob? 

I haven't seen  many robbing problems in the spring.  It's the fall that they seem more prone to rob.  The fall sugar water really sets them off. 

Yeah, when robbing combs, they rip the caps off the honey in a ragged fashion.  However they don't rip the rest of the comb to pieces.  Once the caps are off, they just stick their heads in the cells and start lapping up the honey.  I'll try to snap some photos tomorrow.

[CapnChkn]

I will be the first to admit drawn wax is a novelty.  In my experience though, the robbing bees whether orderly, in battle, or absconding, tear the comb all up.  If they're too lazy to get through the caps, they seem to rip through the side or bottom of the cells to get at it.

Assuming the hive didn't die out from disease, first I would freeze the full frames.  I could then either take the open cells and put them 300 ft (100 m) from the hive in a covered tray, let them tear it up, and I get the wax, or put it in an empty box above the stores and brood, where the bees would then open and handle the comb gently, moving food down into the nest.

I made a deep nuc 1 inch too narrow.  I can only fit 4 frames in it with a bunch of empty space.  I put that on top with empty comb tied to the top bars, mostly empty honey frames, and so on, so my minion will do housecleaning and maintenance on them.  They kind of ignore that space if "tied empty combs for reattachment," until they get warm and excited.  Honey frames get them up there!

[BlueBee]

I made a deep nuc 1 inch too narrow.  I can only fit 4 frames in it with a bunch of empty space. 

Isn't there an old proverb that goes something like, "measure twice and cut once"?  :-D

[BlueBee]

I did take some photos of robbed out comb this evening, but it's getting late and I haven't got them uploaded to Photobucket yet.  Hopefully tomorrow.  Maybe my bees aren't as rambunctious as CapnChkn's bees? 

[BlueBee]

OK, this is for Windfall.  Here's a photo of what hungry robbers can do.

[Country Heart]

Thanks for the photo Bluebee - a picture is worth a thousand words.

[windfall]

Thanks Bluebee. I can't get much detail, but it doesn't look bad at all.

Frameshift,
I  tried using empty frames to open the broodnest for swarm control last spring and it was a total failure for me (as swarm control; they drew out lots of nice brood frames). I have been told time and again that empty drawn comb is far more effective....I hope so.