What should I do? I think I need to make a crucial decision ASAP.

Dexterjc · March 18, 2012, 03:30:05 PM

So, I took my first good look inside my two hives since last fall today. I kinda expected what I found. Both hives currently have 2 deeps and are full of bees. In hive number one, the cluster completely fills 8 frames in both deeps and in hive number two, the cluster fills 7 frames. I would say hive one has about 15 lbs of stores and hive two has maybe 10, so VERY light. I have been feeding dry sugar, and they are still talking it.

My question is, what do I do to feed them? Continue with sugar or change out to 2:1 sugar syrup? And do I add a super to aliviate the space problems? No medications currently on the hive (besides grease). If I do put a super on and feed, what do I do with the super filled with sugar? Also, I am planning on starting a new hive, I could be ready to split my two hives and start a third as soon as wednesday. Does that sound like a good thing to do given the low stores?

Sorry this is my first season going into spring with established hives. Both hives have eggs which makes me very happy.

Thanks, Dex

Kathyp · March 18, 2012, 03:47:46 PM

you should have stuff blooming pretty soon down there. you may either add space, do splits if there is enough brood, or let them swarm :-) i don't recommend the latter.

if you need to feed, use spring syrup 1:1.

how much brood do you have?

Dexterjc · March 18, 2012, 04:10:28 PM

I didnt pull very many frames today because it isn't quite 50*f here today, but in both hives I saw eggs on frames 2 and 8, so I am assuming lots and lots.

BrentX · March 18, 2012, 05:16:06 PM

The bees appear strong, with plenty of brood. If there is even a mild nectar flow I would split both hives. My preference would be to stop the feed as soon as there is nectar available.

Kathyp · March 18, 2012, 05:18:02 PM

make sure you have drones before you split unless you have access to queens for sale.

rdy-b · March 18, 2012, 05:30:30 PM

Give each hive two gallons of 2-1 --after they take the syrup add a honey supper-if you want
more bees instead of honey split them-but do it after they take the sryup--RDY-B

bud1 · March 18, 2012, 08:43:09 PM

if you still in the 50s there is no rush, wait till it warms up

Kathyp · March 18, 2012, 08:48:27 PM

bud, this is oregon. we'll be in the 50's for the next couple of months :-). brood is being produced and things are blooming. our bees work at much lower temps than your warm weather bees! :evil:

Dexterjc · March 18, 2012, 11:50:32 PM

I have drones in my hives. ( I don't know how far queens fly to mate, but I am only about 1.7 miles from the Oregon state university research apiary). So from what I have heard, put some 2:1 on the hive and once gone, split and add supers to the two esabilished hives. So do I take two or three frames from each hive, or more?

rdy-b · March 19, 2012, 03:15:35 PM

It depends what your goals are do you want a crop of honey or bees-is the split you speak of
just a swarm management approach with simply taking a few frames of brood to open the brood nest
-or is going to be a 50-50 split trying to establish colonies that may make some honey in 2-3 months-
you dont have to split them- if they are feed and you get open comb ABOVE the brood nest before
swarming they will fill the suppers with honey and if they have plenty space to store honey during
the flow they wont swarm-( ;) maybe)--how are you going to provide a queen for your split-there is
a lot of different conditions to consider before splitting-RDY-B

Dexterjc · March 19, 2012, 07:15:21 PM

My plan was to split for swarm management. There are already so many bees I am surprised they have not try swarming already. They are also light on stores. The choice I was having trouble making was, if I give them more room (a super) which they need and I am feeding at the same time, which they also need, then I end up with an unwanted super filled with sugar syrup, so I was trying to figure out how to accomplish both tasks ( feeding and swarm prevention) in the most successful method possible.

If I take 3 frames from each hive (6 frames in total) and start a new hive, then feed 2 gallons to all three hives, I am hoping will prevent the two established hives from swarming, and I get the equivalent of a nuc out of the deal to start a third hive.

One of my two established hives had a queen death last summer, they managed to raise a new queen and she mated with some drones that have some very different traits. Much more protective of the hive. I have a lot of drones already, and I know I have neighbors with bees so I am pretty certain the queen will mate successfully.

Dexterjc · March 19, 2012, 11:47:19 PM

I suppose I should clarify that the cluster in hive one covers 8 frames in deep one and 8 frames in deep two for a total of a 16 frame cluster. And hive two has a cluster that covers 8 frame in lower deep and 6.5 frames in upper deeps for a total of 14.5 frames. Lots of bees.

FRAMEshift · March 20, 2012, 12:23:39 AM

Quote from: Dexterjc on March 19, 2012, 07:15:21 PM
If I take 3 frames from each hive (6 frames in total) and start a new hive, then feed 2 gallons to all three hives, I am hoping will prevent the two established hives from swarming,

If you take 3 frames of brood AND a queen from each established hive, you will have two nucs and two large hives that will not swarm (at least not yet) and will make lots of honey.

But I'm not sure that's what you are proposing. What are you going to do with the queens in the established hives? If you leave them in the hives, you still have LOTS of bees and the hive will still swarm. If you take queens from both hives and move them into one nuc, you could lose both queens from fighting. So what exactly are you planning?

Michael Bush · March 20, 2012, 12:24:53 AM

I feed 5:3 all year round. It's more concentrated and lasts longer...

http://www.bushfarms.com/beesfeeding.htm

Dexterjc · March 20, 2012, 12:46:46 AM

Frameshift, my plan is to take three frames of brood from both hives with their attending bees, leave the queens in their orginal hives, and combine the 3+3 frames into one new hive without a queen, I will make sure the frames I choose have capped brood, open brood, and eggs, and I will let them raise a new queen. And if at last resort in about 5 weeks I don't see any new capped brood, I will requeen.

Does this plan seem unreasonable, or am I missing something? The hives are light so I need to feed them until the weather clears up enough that they can go get a significant amount of nectar. But if I don't do something about their lack of room, I will end up with hives that swarm.

So the plan is to give them 3 empty frames, take 3 full frames ( and start a new hive with those frames) and feed some 2:1. Then in a week or so when they have taken all of the 2:1 i will add a super to give them room, and hopefully, after all of that, they won't swarm anyways.

FRAMEshift · March 20, 2012, 01:29:17 AM

Quote from: Dexterjc on March 20, 2012, 12:46:46 AM
Does this plan seem unreasonable, or am I missing something? The hives are light so I need to feed them until the weather clears up enough that they can go get a significant amount of nectar. But if I don't do something about their lack of room, I will end up with hives that swarm.

Hives swarm from lack of room yes, but they also swarm for reproductive purposes. Take a look at Michael Bush's suggestions for reproductive swarm control. http://www.bushfarms.com/beesswarmcontrol.htm#opening

antaro · March 20, 2012, 02:02:43 AM

Interesting topic and one that I feel will be relevant to me as I go for my first hive inspections of the year this weekend.

Out of curiosity, have any of you western Oregonians added any supers yet this year?

Dexterjc · March 20, 2012, 02:31:48 AM

Antaro, I have yet to, but I am hoping to within a week or two.

Frameshift, thanks for that article, I plan on giving it a try tomorrow pending weather.

Dexterjc · March 21, 2012, 11:18:24 PM

Well to give an update On the situation, I have yet to do anything except set up a new empty hive outside. Why you may ask.... Because I woke up to 6 inches a snow! This is not supposed to happen.....we have had 9 days of rain with only two of those day with any real chunk of time for the bees to fly, then all of the fruit trees began to blossom, and now this. March is Oregons bi-polar month. Two days ago we had rain, sun, then snow, then hail, then rain again.
That is all.