Im new and confused

samuils · March 20, 2012, 07:27:32 AM

Hi, as mentioned Im new and confused about space for bees. I am looking at some 8 frame medium hives, it says it has 2 supers. Is it enough? I am getting a package 3lb soon.

Also, how do I tell when to add supers? I am so worried :(

While Im on the subject does anyone have a link where I can buy a CD that would maybe walk me through step by step?

Thank you in advance

Michael Bush · March 20, 2012, 08:58:34 AM

One box is enough to get you through the first two weeks. You'll need more. In the end you'll need probably seven boxes for each hive in a good year.

When what they have is 80% full you can double the space...

indypartridge · March 20, 2012, 09:15:11 AM

Quote from: samuils on March 20, 2012, 07:27:32 AMI am so worried :(

Stop worrying. This is supposed to be fun!

QuoteWhile Im on the subject does anyone have a link where I can buy a CD that would maybe walk me through step by step?

Go to Michael's site and read everything. It's free.
http://www.bushfarms.com/bees.htm

JackM · March 20, 2012, 09:44:37 AM

QuoteGo to Michael's site and read everything. It's free.
http://www.bushfarms.com/bees.htm

I get my package in 2 weeks and I am not worried at all. I agree with the above, questions will be answered.

Intheswamp · March 20, 2012, 09:58:30 AM

Quote from: Michael Bush on March 20, 2012, 08:58:34 AM
One box is enough to get you through the first two weeks. You'll need more. In the end you'll need probably seven boxes for each hive in a good year.

When what they have is 80% full you can double the space...

Just trying to keep down any confusion (I'm full of it!...and other things. :-\)...The above mention to "double the space..." is for a single box hive. Once the hive consists of more than a single box the 80% applies to the top/last box. When the top box is 80% full then add another box. ...did I get that about right, Michael? :)

As others have mention, check out Michael's website...loads of information there. Mike has also written a book, "The Practical Beekeeper"...in both a single edition hardback and a 3-volume set of paperbacks...it is basically his website in print (nice). He has a wealth of general beekeeping advice there with added information on using 8-frame medium hives of which a lot of other books/websites give little mention. Another book that is very good for a beginner to get a grasp of the basics from is the new "First Lessons In Beekeeping" by Keith Delaplane...this book has been in print since 1917(?) by C.P. Dadant and gone through many revisions. In my beginner opinion the latest revision by Delaplane is very good...great content and photos.

Best wishes on your new adventure!
Ed

Kathyp · March 20, 2012, 10:20:34 AM

check out youtube for videos on hiving your package, etc. there is also a beemaster facebook page and folks are sharing stuff over there. beemaster has done some videos that are on youtube and are good.

take a deep breath. relax and enjoy :-) if it helps, i have been known to take a good shot of something strong before digging into new projects ;)

FRAMEshift · March 20, 2012, 12:50:30 PM

Quote from: kathyp on March 20, 2012, 10:20:34 AM
if it helps, i have been known to take a good shot of something strong before digging into new projects ;)

Yes, this is the companion book to Michael Bush's "The Practical Beekeeper". Kathy's book is called "The Tipsy Beekeeper."

:cheer: :devilbanana:

Kathyp · March 20, 2012, 01:19:45 PM

naw....bees don't do it for me. twitchy colts will!

mikecva · March 20, 2012, 03:54:00 PM

I do mediums also. It takes 3 boxes for the bee colony and stores for the winter. I use 2 - 3 supers for honey (which I would not expect the first year), that makes 5-6 boxes per hive. I also use a screened bottom board, inter cover and outer cover. I personally like using top feeders but you can easily start with gallon bags of 1:1 sugar/water to feed new packages. (3 gallons water added to 25# of sugar will yield 5 gallons of 1:1). The bees will build up the hive using pollen, and stores (honey) when the nectar flow is present (around here that is mid May onward, but who knows this year.)

Please concider joining a local bee club, they can give you lots of local advice -Mike

stella · March 20, 2012, 04:11:39 PM

I started last spring with a 3 pound package. I used 2 8 frame deeps (one at a time as needed) and they were good for the year. I will tell you that they got very heavy towards the end of the season when they were full of honey and brood etc. Probably around 80 to 100 pounds. So going down to the second box for inspection was a bit tough on the back.( And Im no frail little thing.) This year I switched to mediums for my second hive and will elevate the hive more to reduce the amount of bending when lifting.

Watch youtube videos for package installation info. Then make sure someone records your installation so you can watch it afterwards. You will love watching it! It is so exciting to install them. Just remember to breath and enjoy the moment.

Congrats.

Intheswamp · March 20, 2012, 04:19:18 PM

Quote from: stella on March 20, 2012, 04:11:39 PM
<snip>Then make sure someone records your installation so you can watch it afterwards. You will love watching it! It is so exciting to install them. Just remember to breath and enjoy the moment.

Congrats.

:) I usually tell folks not to forget to exhale. ;)

Michael Bush · March 21, 2012, 12:35:54 AM

>The above mention to "double the space..." is for a single box hive. Once the hive consists of more than a single box the 80% applies to the top/last box. When the top box is 80% full then add another box. ...did I get that about right, Michael?

No. If I had two boxes and between them they are 80% full I'd add two more boxes. If I have four boxes and between them all they are 80% full I'd add four more boxes... assuming, of course that things are still building and the flow isn't over.

FRAMEshift · March 21, 2012, 01:42:19 AM

Quote from: Michael Bush on March 21, 2012, 12:35:54 AM
>The above mention to "double the space..." is for a single box hive. Once the hive consists of more than a single box the 80% applies to the top/last box. When the top box is 80% full then add another box. ...did I get that about right, Michael?

No. If I had two boxes and between them they are 80% full I'd add two more boxes. If I have four boxes and between them all they are 80% full I'd add four more boxes... assuming, of course that things are still building and the flow isn't over.

But when do you hit the queen laying limit? She can lay a maximum of 1400 eggs per day. If the deep frames are 2/3 brood, that would be about one frame every three days? So she can lay a maximum of 7 frames in 21 days and then the brood is emerging and more space is opening up. How do hives ever get to 20 frames of brood?

Michael Bush · March 21, 2012, 02:00:07 AM

>But when do you hit the queen laying limit? She can lay a maximum of 1400 eggs per day.

Between 1,000 and 5,000 depending... but what do I care. I just want to give them room. As long as they keep using up that room, I want to give them more. Whether they fill it with brood or honey I still want to give them plenty of room...

> If the deep frames are 2/3 brood, that would be about one frame every three days? So she can lay a maximum of 7 frames in 21 days and then the brood is emerging and more space is opening up. How do hives ever get to 20 frames of brood?

A really good queen lays a lot more than 1,000 eggs a day. 3,000 is much more likely. I'm sure someone has tried to count on more than one occasion, but I'm also sure it varies greatly. More than 4000 wouldn't surprise me but try a google search on:

bees queen "2000 eggs per day"

and you'll get 131,000 hits. If you do the same with:

bees queen "1000 eggs per day"

you get 25,000 hits...

bees queen "3000 eggs per day"

gets 18,000 hits...

bees queen "4000 eggs per day"

gets 39,400,000 hits

bees queen "5000 eggs per day"

gets 36,000,000 hits and quite a few are studies...

Intheswamp · March 21, 2012, 12:05:34 PM

Quote from: Michael Bush on March 21, 2012, 12:35:54 AM
>The above mention to "double the space..." is for a single box hive. Once the hive consists of more than a single box the 80% applies to the top/last box. When the top box is 80% full then add another box. ...did I get that about right, Michael?

No. If I had two boxes and between them they are 80% full I'd add two more boxes. If I have four boxes and between them all they are 80% full I'd add four more boxes... assuming, of course that things are still building and the flow isn't over.

Ok, I'm striking out here lately. :) I understand you practice ulb or open brood nest, but wouldn't that leave lots of unguarded space for SHB to homestead?

Ed

Jim134 · March 21, 2012, 01:22:32 PM

Quote from: samuils on March 20, 2012, 07:27:32 AM
Hi, as mentioned Im new and confused about space for bees. I am looking at some 8 frame medium hives, it says it has 2 supers. Is it enough? I am getting a package 3lb soon.

Also, how do I tell when to add supers? I am so worried :(

While Im on the subject does anyone have a link where I can buy a CD that would maybe walk me through step by step?

Thank you in advance

You need 20 frames of deeps (9 5/8") for a brood nest or
30 frames of mediums (6 5/8") for a brood nest

Just my $0.02

BEE HAPPY Jim 134 :)

Michael Bush · March 21, 2012, 01:29:59 PM

>Ok, I'm striking out here lately. Smiley I understand you practice ulb or open brood nest, but wouldn't that leave lots of unguarded space for SHB to homestead?

If you have four boxes 80% covered in bees and full of honey and brood four more are easily guarded.

Intheswamp · March 21, 2012, 02:07:32 PM

Quote from: Michael Bush on March 21, 2012, 01:29:59 PM
>Ok, I'm striking out here lately. Smiley I understand you practice ulb or open brood nest, but wouldn't that leave lots of unguarded space for SHB to homestead?

If you have four boxes 80% covered in bees and full of honey and brood four more are easily guarded.

So if you have 3.2 full boxes of bees and honey the bees can safely guard 7.8 boxes? Before I sound like I'm trying to be argumentative I want to say that I'm really trying to just get a grip on what a safe number of empty boxes is. It seems I hear horror stories of hives being overrun by shb because there wasn't enough bees to *cover* the territory. Plus, being in the deep south I'm a bit cautious.

I'm just starting out and wondering when to add another 8-frame med box for the bees to start drawing. If they can guard it ok I'll go ahead and throw another box on (I've got two 8-frame mediums for one hive...and a 10-frame deep and 8-frame med for the other two hives).

Thanks,
Ed

Jim134 · March 21, 2012, 06:21:35 PM

Quote from: Intheswamp on March 21, 2012, 02:07:32 PM
Quote from: Michael Bush on March 21, 2012, 01:29:59 PM
>Ok, I'm striking out here lately. Smiley I understand you practice ulb or open brood nest, but wouldn't that leave lots of unguarded space for SHB to homestead?

If you have four boxes 80% covered in bees and full of honey and brood four more are easily guarded.
So if you have 3.2 full boxes of bees and honey the bees can safely guard 7.8 boxes? Before I sound like I'm trying to be argumentative I want to say that I'm really trying to just get a grip on what a safe number of empty boxes is. It seems I hear horror stories of hives being overrun by shb because there wasn't enough bees to *cover* the territory. Plus, being in the deep south I'm a bit cautious.

I'm just starting out and wondering when to add another 8-frame med box for the bees to start drawing. If they can guard it ok I'll go ahead and throw another box on (I've got two 8-frame mediums for one hive...and a 10-frame deep and 8-frame med for the other two hives).

Thanks,
Ed

You add a (one) new box when bees have use 75% to 80% of the comb.

BEE HAPPY Jim 134 :)

Michael Bush · March 22, 2012, 02:01:50 AM

>So if you have 3.2 full boxes of bees and honey the bees can safely guard 7.8 boxes?

If it is full of bees, yes.

> Before I sound like I'm trying to be argumentative I want to say that I'm really trying to just get a grip on what a safe number of empty boxes is. It seems I hear horror stories of hives being overrun by shb because there wasn't enough bees to *cover* the territory. Plus, being in the deep south I'm a bit cautious.

Well, I'm not in a place with SHB problems, so you may have to take that into account. But if I don't double the space, I'd never get all my outyards worked.

>I'm just starting out and wondering when to add another 8-frame med box for the bees to start drawing. If they can guard it ok I'll go ahead and throw another box on (I've got two 8-frame mediums for one hive...and a 10-frame deep and 8-frame med for the other two hives).

The proportion of adding one eight frame box when they have 80% of one eight frame box full is the same as adding four boxes when they have four boxes 80% full.