Cutout from hell failure!

gardeningfireman · March 23, 2012, 04:48:21 PM

Well, the bees won! I couldn't get to them though the roof or soffet due to multiple roofs and soffets(original house built in 1850, modernized at least twice since then)so I went inside and cut a 10 by 12 inch hole in the ceiling. Yet another roof layer about 5 inches above the lath/plaster, but no bees. Next I drilled several 1/2 inch holes in the wall to check there. Blown in insulation and behind that another wall! The total wall thickness is about 14 inches and I know there are at least three separate walls; plaster/lath, brick, and wood! I closed everything back up and told the homeowner that the bees are just inaccessable without doing several thousand dollars worth of destruction. The next option is a trapout, which I will start in late April. And to add injury to insult, I got popped on the eyelid while closing up the roof! :( Their entrance is behind the gutter, so that is going to be a challenge as well!

JP · March 23, 2012, 05:49:47 PM

Any pictures of the building and where they are entering?

...JP

gardeningfireman · March 23, 2012, 06:49:59 PM

No, sorry. From the outside, it is just wood siding over brick, with a pitched roof. The newer soffet is built right over the original. Under the brick is plaster/lath. Under the 5/8" plywood roof deck is old planking and under that is more planking,and then God knows what! The ceilings and inside walls are plaster/lath. The bees are entering between the edge of the pitched roof and the soffet, behind the gutter. Then they go through both soffets and under the second roof. Just saw a little comb above that second roof. There is a labyrinth of spaces in there that they follow to get to a cavity. From the inside, I couldn't see anything after cutting through the lath/plaster of both the ceiling and the wall except old insulation and anther wall! The whole wall is about 14 inches between the outside wood and the inside plaster. Owners just kept building over the previous structure!

JP · March 24, 2012, 12:34:26 AM

Did you check the soffit?

...JP

gardeningfireman · March 24, 2012, 03:21:14 AM

Yes, checked that right away. The soffit boards are right over the petrified wood of the original structure and I couldn't get through! From the opening I made in the outer-most roof, I could see that they're going under the other, older roof.

JackM · March 24, 2012, 10:10:06 AM

And that is why there are building codes now. What a mess...... And, a trapout still leaves the honey and comb

Jim134 · March 24, 2012, 10:23:03 AM

Quote from: gardeningfireman on March 23, 2012, 04:48:21 PM
Well, the bees won! I couldn't get to them though the roof or soffet due to multiple roofs and soffets(original house built in 1850, modernized at least twice since then)so I went inside and cut a 10 by 12 inch hole in the ceiling. Yet another roof layer about 5 inches above the lath/plaster, but no bees. Next I drilled several 1/2 inch holes in the wall to check there. Blown in insulation and behind that another wall! The total wall thickness is about 14 inches and I know there are at least three separate walls; plaster/lath, brick, and wood! I closed everything back up and told the homeowner that the bees are just inaccessable without doing several thousand dollars worth of destruction. The next option is a trapout, which I will start in late April. And to add injury to insult, I got popped on the eyelid while closing up the roof! :( Their entrance is behind the gutter, so that is going to be a challenge as well!

Sound to me like the building is winding.

BEE HAPPY Jim 134 :)

JP · March 24, 2012, 10:51:42 AM

Quote from: JackM on March 24, 2012, 10:10:06 AM
And that is why there are building codes now. What a mess...... And, a trapout still leaves the honey and comb

Jack, if done properly a trap out does not leave behind honey. The last step in the procedure is allowing the remaining colony in the catch box to rob out whatever honey is in the parent hive.

...JP

gardeningfireman · March 24, 2012, 11:36:55 AM

I was wondering about the honey left from a trapout. I would think that while the trapout is going on, with no food coming in, the colony would eat whatever was in the hive. The queen would abscond with the remaining workers when that ran out. Therefore, there would be no food left over to be robbed out. Am I wrong?

Jim134 · March 24, 2012, 03:19:38 PM

Quote from: gardeningfireman on March 24, 2012, 11:36:55 AM
I was wondering about the honey left from a trapout. I would think that while the trapout is going on, with no food coming in, the colony would eat whatever was in the hive. The queen would abscond with the remaining workers when that ran out. Therefore, there would be no food left over to be robbed out. Am I wrong?

Bee need pollen and nectar (honey) to have brood. In my experience bees will run out of pollen long be for nectar or honey in a tapout.Ones the brood is gone the bees are gone.
Just my $0.02

BEE HAPPY Jim 134 :)

JP · March 25, 2012, 01:54:32 AM

Quote from: gardeningfireman on March 24, 2012, 11:36:55 AM
I was wondering about the honey left from a trapout. I would think that while the trapout is going on, with no food coming in, the colony would eat whatever was in the hive. The queen would abscond with the remaining workers when that ran out. Therefore, there would be no food left over to be robbed out. Am I wrong?

I believe you are somewhat correct that at least some honey would be consumed. If its a colony that packed on quite a bit of surplus there should still be some left for the remaining bees to gather once the cone is removed.

The beauty of a trap out is that if done correctly you aren't leaving a rotting mess in someone's walls.

...JP

beyondthesidewalks · March 25, 2012, 02:31:28 AM

Every trapout I've done had a bunch of honey left over in the house. The very first had three supers worth of honey. I've never had that much again but that was a very old and large hive. Once the cone is one I agree they probably run out of pollen before they run out of honey. I would think lack of pollen would lead to shutdown in laying. That shutdown would slender the queen and prepare her for absconding. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

gardeningfireman · March 25, 2012, 08:51:27 AM

Thanks for the trapout info! I learn something new every time I come here! :)

JackM · March 25, 2012, 10:41:46 AM

Quote from: JP on March 24, 2012, 10:51:42 AM
Quote from: JackM on March 24, 2012, 10:10:06 AM
And that is why there are building codes now. What a mess...... And, a trapout still leaves the honey and comb

Jack, if done properly a trap out does not leave behind honey. The last step in the procedure is allowing the remaining colony in the catch box to rob out whatever honey is in the parent hive.

...JP

Thanks for the education, I think I knew and forgot.

Jim134 · March 25, 2012, 09:36:08 PM

Quote from: gardeningfireman on March 25, 2012, 08:51:27 AM
Thanks for the trapout info! I learn something new every time I come here! :)

gardeningfireman ..................

If you are gonging to do a trapout this may help you.

http://forum.beemaster.com/index.php/topic,20301.0.html

BEE HAPPY Jim 134 :)