Cheap NewB question

codeboy · March 26, 2012, 11:34:39 AM

So here is the thought process I am struggling with:

I have two hives that I will be putting packages into and because I am cheap, I bought only 10 frames of HSC (Honey Super Cell). Would it be practical to place 5 frames of HSC in each hive and use some sort of follower board until the queen starts laying in them? And once the HSC was accepted by the bees I could start sliding the follower board back and adding in foundationless frames? I guess I'm worried that the bees would just crawl beyond the follower board and start building their own comb down from the inner cover or something weird like that. Thoughts/Suggestions?

iddee · March 26, 2012, 11:44:17 AM

They certainly will if given the chance.

codeboy · March 26, 2012, 11:46:43 AM

So, are you thinking you would need to make sure any kind of follower board completely seals off the empty section of the hive so they couldn't go over there. I could probably make something like that I think.

Vance G · March 26, 2012, 03:40:10 PM

Michael Bush has addressed this, I would go to his site and read what he has to say.

podius · March 26, 2012, 03:41:22 PM

You could turn one box into 2, 4 frame nucs. The bees would be forced to work the combs, and have the heat retention of 2 packages in one box. Once drawn and expansion is in order, you can put each hive in their own boxes and place empty wooden frames between the super cells. Though I'd only break up the brood nest with one empty frame and put the rest on the outside and hope they draw them out right. I don't know if there's another cheap solution to your predicament.

Robo · March 26, 2012, 04:23:02 PM

Quote from: codeboy on March 26, 2012, 11:34:39 AM
And once the HSC was accepted by the bees I could start sliding the follower board back and adding in foundationless frames?

Depends on what you mean by "accepted" and what your intentions are.

Brand new HSC is difficult to get the queen laying in, even if you force her to, as soon as you add another option (ie. founndationless) she will immediately move there. With such a short period of only HSC, you will not have regressed bees to draw out foundationless as a smaller size (if that is your intent). In fact giving them any room besides the HSC will instantly be drawn as drone comb.

HSC does work, but it is not as easy as one would hope. For the most part queens are very reluctant to lay in it, but once a bee is raised in a cell, there is no problem after that. Initially, you will think you have a bad queen because the brood pattern is so spotty, but over time the whole frame will be used.

Here is an example of one that has had quite a few brood cycles run through it.

Take it from a fellow cheap guy, I think your plan is going to cause you more headaches than anything. You would probably be better off the use all 10 frames on one hive and put the other one on foundation or foundationless and regress one hive at a time (if that is your intent). You want at least 3 brood cycles before you should expect any regression results.

codeboy · March 27, 2012, 10:10:26 AM

Thanks everyone for your thoughts.

Robo, I think you nailed it. Yes, "one-step" regression of a new package is my intent and with all the weird thoughts I had about how I could make it work and the other issues you brought up, I think I need to change my approach. Actually it might be a nice experiment to use the 10 frames of HSC in one hive and go foundationless in the other hive. That way I can do some additional compare and contrast between the two.

Thanks again!

Robo · March 27, 2012, 10:41:05 AM

Just be aware, when I started using HSC, my intention was the same. Unfortunately/Fortunately I had a lot of removals that year and HSC was on backorder, so I had no choice but to put some on large cell comb. Needless to say, these bees on large cell comb survived just as well as those on HSC. From my experience, I've concluded that bee genetics are just as important if not more than cell size. I still use the HSC, but have not purchased any additional in 3 years. Now I use pierco plastic in wooden frames. Haven't treated in 5 year or so.

Jim134 · March 27, 2012, 11:17:36 AM

Quote from: Robo on March 27, 2012, 10:41:05 AM
Just be aware, when I started using HSC, my intention was the same. Unfortunately/Fortunately I had a lot of removals that year and HSC was on backorder, so I had no choice but to put some on large cell comb. Needless to say, these bees on large cell comb survived just as well as those on HSC. From my experience, I've concluded that bee genetics are just as important if not more than cell size. I still use the HSC, but have not purchased any additional in 3 years. Now I use pierco plastic in wooden frames. Haven't treated in 5 year or so.

X:X X:X X:X
Take it from a fellow cheap guy. If I would do foundationless frames from the begin for the whole hive.

BEE HAPPY Jim 134 :)