How much does the genetics of the drone come into bee management?

Started by JackM, April 12, 2012, 09:30:31 AM

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JackM

Tough question to actually phrase here.  I am certain there is a close feral hive, unknown species, from what I have learned I would think they lean Italian, from the bees I saw before I got mine.  They were very gentle on flowers on nice days.  Duh. 

Anyhow, how much does the genetics of the drone effect the offspring and their gentleness?  For example you have a hive with a nice mellow attitude, you split and get a virgin queen and she goes to the DCA and meets with the other drones from your hives and the feral hive.  How much of the feral genetics is it possible for the queen to pass on to the offspring?

I hope this question makes sense.  Hard for me to ask in a manner that sounds somewhat educated.

Now of course should I manage to get a queen from the feral hive, how much will the drones from my apiary species effect any virgin queens developed from her eggs?

I do understand that a lot of this is chromosomal type science of which I have minimal understanding, so if you can make it plain language I would appreciate it.

(As you can tell with less than a week of experience I can already see and feel the difference between species.)
Jack of all trades
Master of none.

rbinhood

It depends on how may drones she mates with from each hive, what the rootstock's of each drone is, if the majority she mates with are from an aggressive leaning hive her offsring will lean more to the aggressive side and likewise if she mates with drones from a more gentle strain the gentler the offspring.

If you want to have a higher percentage of success in gentle bees find a location where you know there is not a huge bee population and use it for a breeding ground using gentle stock.
Only God can make these two things.....Blood and Honey!

backyard warrior

#2
Its very important to get as many genetics from different blood lines to establish a healthy laying queen.  Let me put it to you this way if you have a bee yard with many nasty hives chances are pretty good you are going to make more grumpy hives. :)   Its best to requeen all aggressive hives it just makes for un fun beekeeping and very unhappy neighbors.  Your bees sting the neighbors and their kids you will have people pounding on your door unfortunately many dont like bees cuz they hurt  :-D

FRAMEshift

Quote from: backyard warrior on April 12, 2012, 10:49:55 AM
Its very important to get as many genetics from different blood lines to establish a healthy laying queen. 

I agree with backyard.  I'd love to have more feral genes in my bees.   The way bee genetics works, there is a prohibition on virgins interbreeding with drones from the same hive.  There are 19 sex alleles and successful mating requires that the virgin and the drone have different alleles.   The best source I've found on the subject is this: 

http://www.glenn-apiaries.com/genetic_aspects_queen_production_1.html
"You never can tell with bees."  --  Winnie-the-Pooh

backyard warrior


JackM

Ya Frame, I need to wake up more before I seriously read that tho.  Thanks
Jack of all trades
Master of none.

Michael Bush

It is half your genetics.  The feral drones are what I WANT.
My website:  bushfarms.com/bees.htm en espanol: bushfarms.com/es_bees.htm  auf deutsche: bushfarms.com/de_bees.htm  em portugues:  bushfarms.com/pt_bees.htm
My book:  ThePracticalBeekeeper.com
-------------------
"Everything works if you let it."--James "Big Boy" Medlin

JackM

That was cool reading.  I agree Michael, at least I get half of their genetics per mating with feral drones.  Or are they Mutts instead of feral...what makes feral over mutts that got away?  Is there a line that can be drawn?
Jack of all trades
Master of none.

FRAMEshift

Quote from: JackM on April 15, 2012, 10:29:20 AM
That was cool reading.  I agree Michael, at least I get half of their genetics per mating with feral drones.  Or are they Mutts instead of feral...what makes feral over mutts that got away?  Is there a line that can be drawn?

To me, bees are feral when a continuous line of queens survives in the wild for enough years to have experienced the full range of seasonal conditions that occur in a particular geographic area.  In other words, bees are feral when they can live off the land indefinitely.  But that isn't really a useful definition since in practice you can't tell which bees are feral by looking at them.  So I like swarms and I like darker bees and smaller bees.  All of those are more likely to be feral than bees that come in the mail from Georgia.   :-D
"You never can tell with bees."  --  Winnie-the-Pooh

beyondthesidewalks

The influence of drones on progeny is significant enough to make queen producers in our AHB positive state have to flood their area with drones to try and overcome the AHB genetics.

I know mating is different with cattle but, the conventional wisdom is that you want a good herd bull because he is half of your future herd.  The same logic applies to bees.  You want a good pool of drones in the mating area because they are half of your queens offspring.  Using the AHB example, a gentle queen can mate with nothing but AHB drones, producing hot offspring even though you started off with a nice gentle queen.  This point is driven home in my hives that have yellow, gray and black bees.  That queen mated with multiple drones of different colors.

blanc

As a new beekeeper and needing much learning I have no clue what the heck you all are talking about.  :-D I did a cut out of an old abandoned building in the woods by my house and those bees were very agressive. They had little honey left from the winter which could account for their behavior. Did not get the queen but plenty of brood comb with queen cells. Checked on them this AM and they were for the most part pretty calm. About 1 1/2 lbs of bees stayed behind and still clinging to the wall and suppose the queen is still there. Was wandering whether to go get the rest and combine or start another hive with em beings it is about 3 weeks since I did the cutout. Was wondering if I should let em make another queen and leave the hag in the woods if she is indeed the agressive one. Any suggestions?
Psalm 19:9-10
The fear of the Lord is clean,enduring forever; the judgments of the Lord are true and righteous altogether.
More to be desired are they than gold, yea ,than much fine gold: sweeter also than honey and the honeycomb.