Splitting and Still getting honey?

enchplant · April 13, 2012, 10:38:53 AM

I have a strong hive that is booming. I'm afraid it is going to swarm. I still want honey ( this is why we do this , no?) So i was thinking of taking the queen and open brood along with some honey to another location in my yard. I would leave just one frame of open brood /eggs in the original hive.
All the foragers go back to the original hive. It won't swarm cos they got no queen and it will take a month for a new mated queen to lay in there. So I should get honey no?

Has anyone done this and had any success?

FRAMEshift · April 13, 2012, 12:03:48 PM

Yes it does work, just as you described it. This is a good way to do it in early spring. Later in the year, an even split is better because the hives have to have time to recover before winter.

We split two hives this way a few weeks ago. All are doing well and the original hives seem to be on their way to making a big honey crop. You should get a bigger honey crop because the nurse bees in the original hive are freed from their brood rearing duties and they can begin foraging early.

indypartridge · April 13, 2012, 03:07:41 PM

What you are describing is known as a cut down split. You can read more about splits here:
http://www.bushfarms.com/beessplits.htm

danno · April 13, 2012, 04:53:00 PM

it will take the best part of 2 months for the queenless colonies new queen to hatch, mature, mate, begin laying and have new brood begin hatching out. This will work provided you start with enough bee's and brood to get them through that 2 months. There is also the chance of the new queen not making it back from her mating flights. They are big and slow moving and birds love them. Up here in Michigan the answer to your question is no. I wouldn't expect a harvest. I have made walkaway splits to head off swarming when queens were not available but they dont compare to a mated queen added to the split

FRAMEshift · April 13, 2012, 05:03:20 PM

Quote from: danno on April 13, 2012, 04:53:00 PM
I wouldn't expect a harvest.

You won't get honey from the new hive, but you should get lots from the old queenless hive. During that period when there is no brood, the bees have nothing to do but gather nectar. If your walkaway splits were even splits, then that would hurt your honey production. But if you just remove a minimum number of bees to allow the queenright hive to recover for winter, and if this happens at the beginning of the flow, there should be lots of honey.

Finski · April 13, 2012, 05:41:25 PM

Quote from: enchplant on April 13, 2012, 10:38:53 AM
. So I should get honey no?

Has anyone done this and had any success?

have you queen cells there? If not, it does not swarm (yet).

If it has queen cells, move the hive 10 feet.

Put into ols site a ne hive, which has foundations. There you put a queen, one brood frame where queen walked and one food frame wihich has pollen too.
A half of bees will move to old site and continues like they have swarmed. Foundatons duty is to cut the swarming fever.

Take care that swarm does not escape from old hive.

When new queens have emerged and they have destroyed queen cells and extra queens,
join the hives again that the hive will be in the foraging balance. a productive hive needs home workers too to handle honey.

Some write that "all will forage honey". Of course not they all do it.
Home work is important too.

Brood hive has home workers and new hive has bees of foraging age. That is why you must join them.

Finski · April 13, 2012, 05:51:03 PM

Quote from: FRAMEshift on April 13, 2012, 12:03:48 PM
Yes You should get a bigger honey crop because the nurse bees in the original hive are freed from their brood rearing duties and they can begin foraging early.

i join the hives to get bigger yield. to me big hives is 6 langstroth boxes.

It is sure that by splitting the hives are not capable to handle big yields.

Big yield comes from pastures. The hive need much space to dry up the nectar and store it.

In good honey flow 100 kg honey in 3 weeks is not rare.

.walk away splits! Goooood heavens! No time to nurse one hive or nuc!
Too hury to go to forum....or watch TV.

.
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enchplant · April 13, 2012, 07:50:56 PM

Thanks everyone! I will see what happens!

enchplant · April 14, 2012, 09:49:49 AM

Okay Another question: When the original hive raises the emergency cells. Will the hive swarm with each virgin that flies out on a mating flight?
What I want to happen is for a virgin to fly out , mate, come back, kill her sister queens and start laying. When was the last time bees listened to me :-D?

FRAMEshift · April 14, 2012, 12:36:23 PM

Quote from: enchplant on April 14, 2012, 09:49:49 AM
Okay Another question: When the original hive raises the emergency cells. Will the hive swarm with each virgin that flies out on a mating flight?
What I want to happen is for a virgin to fly out , mate, come back, kill her sister queens and start laying. When was the last time bees listened to me :-D?

First out will kill her sisters before she mates, IF the bees let her. They will make that decision based on the size of the hive and I'm sure other considerations. So a really big hive may have multiple after-swarms led by virgins. A smaller hive will not swarm at all after the split because only one queen survives and she is not under any pressure to leave.