Is this a swarm cell?

Rurification · May 20, 2012, 01:42:13 PM

Found this cell today in our lang. We did find the queen and she looked fine, but there weren't a lot of eggs or larvae, the capped brood was scattered. We saw no propolis at all. There was a lot of wonky comb [always is with this hive].

The bees were very gentle, but loud. I thought it was because it's hot out and they were fanning. They were distinctly louder than the other hive.

We installed April 3. There are lots of bees and they've got comb on 8 deep frames [foundationless].

In the middle frame we found this cell. Didn't know if it was a wonky drone cell or if perhaps the bees are unhappy with the queen and making plans.

The cell is in the center of each photo. [Click to biggify.]

JP · May 20, 2012, 02:13:23 PM

Not quite a queen cell but a queen cup.

...JP

specialkayme · May 20, 2012, 02:58:07 PM

Tear open one of the walls to look inside. If there is an egg or a small larvae it is (or will soon become) a queen cell.

It looks like a queen cup though, which would be if there is no egg or small larvae inside.

BTW - I like the term "biggify" :-P

Rurification · May 20, 2012, 03:24:16 PM

OK. I did some reading and now I know the difference between supercedure and swarming. The cells will look alike, but the bees' plan is different. It's common to have backup queen cells.

We did find nectar in the brood comb and tons and tons of pollen. Tons of drone comb. A few emerging adults. It didn't occur to me that there might be a queen issue, so I didn't know to look for other cups, and I don't know if there were others that I just didn't recognize as such.

They've got two empty frames and they're only about 80% full on the fullest frame.

What should I do?

Should I go back in and look for more cups?

hardwood · May 20, 2012, 04:44:05 PM

It's common for them to build queen cups and then tear them down later...don't worry about them a bit.

Scott

tefer2 · May 20, 2012, 05:14:22 PM

Mine build them all the time, no worry until you find a larvae in them. Then it's time to take the queen and 5 frames out for another hive.

Rurification · May 20, 2012, 07:20:48 PM

When should I check it again to see if there is a larva in it? Is next weekend OK or is that going to be too late?

Also, given that we saw few eggs, few larvae, scattered capped brood, nectar in the brood comb, etc. how serious is the possibility of supercedure? And if they're serious, I should just keep out of it and let them take care of it, right?

JP · May 20, 2012, 07:37:13 PM

Describe the set up. How many boxes, what size?

...JP

tefer2 · May 20, 2012, 08:21:13 PM

I try to get into them at least once a week during swarm season. My method is to tip hive bodies up and look at bottom of frames for larvae in queen cells. Most hives build and tear them down several times through out the season.
If they build supercedure cells I let them have their way!

Rurification · May 20, 2012, 09:11:20 PM

Quote from: JP on May 20, 2012, 07:37:13 PM
Describe the set up. How many boxes, what size?

...JP

1 10 frame, deep lang., foundationless. I installed on April 3. They've got comb in 8 frames. The fullest frame is no more than 80% full. The newest frame is about 30% full.

JP · May 21, 2012, 10:10:08 AM

Quote from: Rurification on May 20, 2012, 09:11:20 PM
Quote from: JP on May 20, 2012, 07:37:13 PM
Describe the set up. How many boxes, what size?

...JP

1 10 frame, deep lang., foundationless. I installed on April 3. They've got comb in 8 frames. The fullest frame is no more than 80% full. The newest frame is about 30% full.

Will be time to add another box likely within the next week. Have fun with them!

...JP

Javin · May 21, 2012, 01:29:46 PM

From the description, sounds like the queen is misfiring. May not have "taken" the fertilization well or something. If all the brood you're seeing is drone, and you see the queen, then that's probably your problem. Check the cups and see if the bees managed to get some fertilized larvae in there to supercede the failing queen. If not, you may want to think about requeening to keep from losing the hive. If you've got successful queen cells being built (you'll know in a few days) then I'd say let the girls take care of it themselves.

Michael Bush · May 22, 2012, 12:00:08 AM

When should I check it again to see if there is a larva in it?

http://www.bushfarms.com/beesmath.htm

Rurification · May 24, 2012, 02:51:53 PM

Thanks for the feedback, everyone. and Michael - I love that bee math page. So helpful!