Are late swarms normal?

qa33010 · September 29, 2005, 03:13:05 AM

I was under the impression that swarming season was normally in the spring. I understand that when a hive runs out of room that the swarming response is usually triggered and the workers begin preparing for it.

But is it normal this late in the year? I know of three bee calls in the past two weeks, two this past weekend, and found out about other swarms (I asked questions to make sure it was not a feral hive if I couldn't try to go see it) in the past three weeks. I haven't been involved with any of the calls but from what I hear this is a little out of the ordinary.

David

Michael Bush · September 29, 2005, 08:14:08 AM

I had one from my hive about a week or two ago. Yes it's not the usual time.

But there are TWO different reasons for swarming. Reproduction, and population adjustment. Reproductive swarms are just before or during the main flow. They are planned for the purpose of starting another viable colony and getting it established before winter. Crowding is irelevant, but a full brood nest is part of the sequence of events. If you have lots of supers on, they will still do a reproductive swarm unless you keep the brood nest open.

The population adjustment swarm is either because of overcrowding, common this time of year from pulling too many boxes off, or lack of resources for the number of bees in the hive. In other words a dearth.

They are more intent on doing a reproductive swarm, but that doesn't stop them from doing an overcrowded swarm.

shakerbeeman · August 12, 2007, 05:43:00 PM

I had a swarm today. Looked like about 5lb. I had quite a time cutting the tree it landed on however I was able to get the mass installed in a 5frame NUC. I will move it to a permanent home at dark. I just wonder what I must do to get it ready for winter. I will be inspecting the hive it came from tonight as well and will see what we have for queens. Probable won't open up the new NUC for a couple of days unless told otherwise. Any advice will be appreciated.

rdy-b · August 12, 2007, 06:43:24 PM

some people believe that there is also a cleansing affect in the late swarms it is natures way of lighting the mite or dises load of a colony late swarms are generally small be careful if you are going to combine them with your regular colonies you may double your mite load with what some keepers call welfare bees something to think about any way RDY-B

JP · August 12, 2007, 07:30:02 PM

As Michael noted they can swarm from lack of resources which is interesting. I posted of a small swarm about 3weeks ago that I brought to the bee yard. Two days later I checked on them and they had swarmed again, I had them in a swarm trap with pheremone. My yard has been in a dearth, and this is why I believe they left the trap, not enough resources. I was going to transfer them and feed them but was too late.

shakerbeeman · August 12, 2007, 09:02:58 PM

Should I feed them sugar water and what mix? Perhaps I can add frames from the other colonies. Judging by the size of the ball I am a bit worried there might not be enough room in the 5 frames. They are medium in size. I could add a second story but planned to feed there with a mason jar on the frames.

JP · August 12, 2007, 10:44:07 PM

Perhaps you could move them to a medium if that's what you will be using for the brood chamber, if not, a deep. I would feed them 1-1 or 2-1 sugar water mix. You could also add a frame of brood from another hive to help them along, but more than anything, if you don't have nectar flowing, you need to feed them.

rdy-b · August 12, 2007, 10:57:06 PM

give them a frame of foundation or two or three to draw out will you are feeding they already have perpencity to draw wax if they run out of resources they will ABSCOND 5lbs need there own ten frame box RDY-B

Michael Bush · August 13, 2007, 07:06:33 AM

>I just wonder what I must do to get it ready for winter.

I'd feed from now until fall and if they aren't strong enough then, combine with another weak hive that might not make it.

shakerbeeman · August 13, 2007, 09:56:06 AM

I am using 8 frame mediums. I could put them in a setup like that or I could leave them in the 5 frame NUC and add a second level of 5 more frames. I feel that the 5 frames they have now will not be enough.

What is the proper mix for sugar water at this stage?

So much to do. I prolly should find or steal a frame or two from another hive. What kind of frame? One with larva or food stores?

Thanks so much for all the good advice.

genesbees · August 13, 2007, 08:07:34 PM

I had a large swarm appear about 50' up in a sweet gum tree in my bee yard a week ago. Checked all my hives and everyone was present and accounted for. My son shot the branch down with his 22 and hived them. I was too busy at work and did not get the feed on them right away. By the time I did, about 40% of them had died from starvation. I guess it was a feral hive that ran out of resources so they swarmed. I don't think they even had taken much honey with them from their old hive. I think they may still make it since we have a pretty good fall flow (Sept to frost) and I only need to get them through this month. Time will tell. I have had at least 5 calls in the last week on other swarms in our area, most were gone before I could get to them. The last week has been our first normal summer weather with little to no rain. I think the bees used up a lot of stores getting through our extremely rainy June & July.

LocustHoney · August 13, 2007, 10:00:02 PM

Is that last post for real??? 50'???? The bees lived???? The queen didn't get smashed???? I will not worry about being gentle with my frames anymore....

genesbees · August 14, 2007, 12:21:03 AM

Quote from: LocustHoney on August 13, 2007, 10:00:02 PM
Is that last post for real??? 50'???? The bees lived???? The queen didn't get smashed???? I will not worry about being gentle with my frames anymore....

I left a little bit out of it. When the branch fell it hit another branch and a lot of the bees flew, it hit another branch and most the rest flew including the queen. They settled down again on another branch about 30' up. We shot that one off too and it fell onto a shorter holly tree. We then bent the holly branch down and grabbed the branch with the swarm still hanging on it and dropped the swarm into the hive. So far the queen is still kicking.

qa33010 · August 14, 2007, 03:35:26 AM

shakerbeeman

Sugar and water are real close to each other in volume and weight. 1:1 would be equal to 1 cup sugar to 1 cup water. 2:1 is 2 cups sugar to 1 cup water. Feed, feed, feed....

I also read some where (may have been the Pink Pages) about 1:2, 1 cup sugar to 2 cups water to stimulate brood brood rearing in late winter/early spring. Haven't tried that yet. They seem to start the new year off fine so far.

shakerbeeman · August 14, 2007, 08:16:13 AM

Thanks for the replies. I added 5 frames in a second NUC box to the top of the other. Now there are 10 frames total. I think that will be enough for the size of the colony. I also added an empty box and in there I put my feeder filled with 2:1 sugar water. These are new hives I started on May 15th. There may not be extra frames to borrow from the others so this new swarm my have to get their own stores together. In about 5 days I will go in and look for the queen. I did see the queen in the hive they swarmed from. This should be a good sign. As an aside, I cut the small tree down to get this swarm and when it fell they swarmed again to a lower location that I could access. Nice of them. I was concerned that the queen may have gotten hurt but we shall see.

LocustHoney · August 14, 2007, 10:04:30 PM

That has got to be the best swarm capture I have ever heard!!! I wish that I could have seen that. Next time video it and post it. That is awesome. By the way...good job!!!

Sean Kelly · August 15, 2007, 07:33:30 AM

I think one of my hives swarmed just recently too. Checked on my hives right before I took a week vacation to Alaska (caught some huge fish... but that's for another forum) and one hive was bearding up big time. Figured it was just cause it was hot that night. Came back from Alaska and that hive was very calm, no bearding, and seemed like there were less bees in the hive. Still lots of bees and going strong, just appeared to be less than before. They had lots of room (added a deep super to each hive the week before) and some of the foundation in the new deeps hadn't been drawn completely yet.

And just yesterday I checked the hive again and found a queencell! I'm hoping they wont swarm again. Kinda crazy since this was the hive I split from my original hive a month ago and the new virgin queen just finally started laying. I really don't want to have this hive start all over again. I don't have any extra equipment to put a swarm in either if they do swarm. Ugh. Maybe I'm getting worried for nothing.

Sean Kelly

shakerbeeman · August 15, 2007, 01:07:52 PM

I checked the feeder and they keep building comb under the inner lid. I guess leave a space and they will fill it however it may foul the works. Should I go back to the boardman feeding style. Was trying to avoid that. I plan to build feeders like Mike Bush makes as soon as time allows. Will have to make one to fut the 5 frame NUC size. Any thoughts?