build vs buy used

[theBeeLord]

so i've been reading different posts about different materials to use to build your own hive box etc.  so my question is for those that have done that - do you have a total cost for building your own box?  maybe even a time estimate?  trying to figure out if i want to build, or buy used boxes off craigslist.
thanks

[Moots]

so i've been reading different posts about different materials to use to build your own hive box etc.  so my question is for those that have done that - do you have a total cost for building your own box?  maybe even a time estimate?  trying to figure out if i want to build, or buy used boxes off craigslist.
thanks

alinn,
Welcome to the forum, while some might tell you that you really can't build your own equipment for cheaper, I strongly disagree.  I use all 8 frame medium equipment and figure it cost me maybe 6 dollars and change a box.  I'd probably have to pay around 15 for the same box not painted.

That being said, the only reason I build my own boxes is because I enjoy doing it.  To me the time invested wouldn't be worth the savings if I didn't enjoy doing it.  Then again, I don't rush the process...For two main reasons, First, as I said, I enjoy it....and Secondly, I still have all 10 of my fingers, and would like to keep them.  :-D

As for buying used equipment, that has to be evaluated on a case by case basis.  I've seen some used stuff that I wouldn't want in my bee yard, while I'm sure some stuff out their is fine...Personally, I just liked the idea of doing everything from the ground up once I decided to get started as a Beek.

[D Coates]

I've bought a little used stuff here and there.  The longer I'm a beekeeper, the more I understand what to look for.  Warping, cracking, wood rot, homemade, mismeasured, odd size, improperly assembled, bad paint, bad hardware etc.  I'm just talking boxes too.  Frames need to be reviewed even more carefully as well.  The combs are a whole different ball of wax too (pardon the pun).  None of this even takes into account the dangers of bringing infected equipment back to your apiary.

I'm glad I didn't run into used stuff in the beginning because I would have invariably bitten hook line and sinker and given too much because I didn't know what to look out for.

[merince]

I build my own, and I enjoy doing it.

You can never know what you can stumble upon when buying used - including disease, pesticide exposure and treatments build-up. So take everything on a case by case basis.

[danno]

The price of 1 X lumber in the wider sizes has made it cost prohibited for me.   Deeps are 9 5/8 high so a
1 X 12 is needed because a 1 X 10 is actually only 9 3/8 or 9 1/2.    1 X 12 are crazy expensive.    I used to build all my own boxes when I could find cheap or free wood.  I used to check the cull rack and home depot and lowes every week for any 1 X lumber at 70% off.  Badly warped boards could still be used because they get cut in such short lengths.  A few years back a contractor friend remodeled a old cottage ripping out all the tongue and groove walls.   These were old boards a full 3/4 thick and widths up to 10 inches.  I salvaged enough wide ones to make 50 me supers.  

[Royall]

As a woodworker come Beek, I love making sawdust and have made all my own woodenware. Deeps, mediums, covers, frames, and the bottom box with a built in SHB oil tray. More of a necessity here as I've not seen used come up for sale (not that I look that often)!

Only thing I hate doing is painting!! LOL  I can get 4 deeps out of 3, 8' pine boards. At 10 bucks a board the 4 hives come in at $7.50 per box plus the staples, glue, and paint. I'm retired and have more time than money, so it works well for me.

[GSF]

Alan, Welcome to the board. 1st suggestion; put your location in your profile. It helps others to answer some of your questions more specific.

I'm a little more than 5 months with bees on the ground. Personnally I build my own. I have found supers that were reasonably priced but the shipping was literally over twice the cost of one super. Just going by what I've read I would not let any "used" nothing come in contact with any of my bees. That could be just my inexperience speaking out. I do remember years ago when I started building up my goat herd. The new goats would make the resident goats sick and the resident goats would make the new ones sick. I have a field degree in goat diagnostics. Of course I gave it to myself.

My cost came in under 8 bucks each after everything was added together. I just got through (not completely) building 7 deeps and 39 mediums. Now I have to do the tops and bottoms. I'm going with the IPK oil trap (www.greenbeehives.com - they have the measurements on their website) for the bottom. I wouldn't do you justice if I told you the hours I had in this recent bee project. I don't have a radial arm saw and my table saw doesn't have a fence. I have to measure and clamp a board down for my fence - so time consuming! I'm like moots, I enjoy it. Ain't nothing like it; building supers, eating sugar cane/pomegranates/pecans and shooting crows when they come near my trees.

[OldMech]

so i've been reading different posts about different materials to use to build your own hive box etc.  so my question is for those that have done that - do you have a total cost for building your own box?  maybe even a time estimate?  trying to figure out if i want to build, or buy used boxes off craigslist.
thanks

alinn,
Welcome to the forum, while some might tell you that you really can't build your own equipment for cheaper, I strongly disagree.  I use all 8 frame medium equipment and figure it cost me maybe 6 dollars and change a box.  I'd probably have to pay around 15 for the same box not painted.

   a 1 x 12 x 12 Board at Menards is 14 bucks. it makes TWO boxes i sell my boxes for 15 ea Painted. Figure in time, nails, glue, paint, electricity etc, I still make about 6 or 7 bucks a Box.

That being said, the only reason I build my own boxes is because I enjoy doing it.  To me the time invested wouldn't be worth the savings if I didn't enjoy doing it.  Then again, I don't rush the process...For two main reasons, First, as I said, I enjoy it....and Secondly, I still have all 10 of my fingers, and would like to keep them.  :-D

  I concur, but I feel that you are being Prejudice against those of us who havent got all ten fingers anymore!!!   LOL
  Well said. I have bees because I enjoy them. Making the equipment to me, is PART of the satisfaction. I have about 15 new boxes ready so far, complete with frames, and have less than a grand invested...   

   A LOT, depends on how many hives you intend to have.  three or four hives? No, probably not worth setting up to build your own stuff.
  20 hives? Now your getting into the realm of money savings if you build your own..
   Something else to consider.. AS a beek, you WILL get calls once in a while.. bees in a shed or a swarm on an eve..  OR, you will realize if you dont split TODAY your bees are going to swarm...  At which point, having an extra set of boxes, bottom board etc will pay for itself. EVEN, if you dont want to KEEP those bees, they could easily be sold if you have the stuff to set them up.
  Like everything else in beekeeping.. it IS up to you how far you go and what you decide you enjoy, or dont. If you dont like woodworking, dont do it! if you have a table saw and a skill saw. Then you have what you need to make them.

  Then again, as MR Prejudice who dislikes people with less than ten fingers said.. if your always in a hurry, or accident prone.. that 7 dollar box could quickly become a 10,000 dollar box.. 

[theBeeLord]

lots of good info in the thread so far.
i have 10 fingers, but only 2 hives at this point.  i enjoy wood working, but time and money are in short supply with a job and kids.  my goal for next year is triple the nr of hives (splitting, catching swarms, removals, etc).  i've already had to borrow a neighbor's nuc for a potential swarm removal - which is what got me thinking about the wisdom in having a few spares (bottom board, body, top) just in case. 
i bought the tools and the gear, and the original package of bees and queen -- hopefully from now on i won't need to buy anymore bees, just provide homes for them .  since i'm not selling honey or anything bee related yet, i'm trying to keep this hobby from becoming real expensive real quick. 

[GSF]

Alan <...i'm trying to keep this hobby from becoming real expensive real quick...>

let me know how that works out for you

bee keeping reminds me of what a bar tab can do to you. Especially if you're a first year beek.

[tecumseh]

if you can place 0 cost on your time and you also enjoy the smell of cut wood then building your own stuff is the way to go.

used stuff always involves it's own set of built in hazards so you have to figure from the get go if you venture down this path you pay your money and take your chances.

as my beekeeping adventure has evolved this time around and as my old home made equipment wears out* I replace it with new and or nearly new manufactured boxes.

it is my own belief that the home made stuff will not last nearly as long as manufactured boxes.  so if you plan on keeping bees from now out into the far future then this should also be a consideration.

*a great deal of this was build from perfectly acceptable material that was headed for the dump anyway.... so I obtain most of this at almost 0 cost.

[bbbthingmaker]

The cost of a box is directly proportional to the cost  of the lumber.  Shop around.  Lowe's and Home Depot are very high.  Your local lumberyard  (family owned, whose main product is lumber ) will be a lot cheaper. Rough sawn lumber from a local sawmill is the cheapest, but it will need to be dried and planed to the proper thickness.  Of course free is even cheaper, but for me it is rare and not a dependable source.

[10framer]

i sell building materials and years ago i worked for home depot.  generally speaking they sell material at 30 points of gross profit where a lumber yard will sell it for 1/3-1/2 of the margin depending on how often you shop there or if you know a salesman.  a 2x4 that goes for 4 dollars at a box store can probably be bought for 2-2/2 to 3 from a supply house.  the boxes use osb as a los leader.  they usually sell it at or a nickel below cost.  find a probuild, 84 lumber, or builder's first source in your area and try to make friends with the guys at the sales counter or an outside salesman.

[Moots]

  I concur, but I feel that you are being Prejudice against those of us who havent got all ten fingers anymore!!!   LOL

OldMech,
Just to clarify, I have nothing against anyone down a digit or two...Just not looking to join the club.  :-D :lau:

In an effort to avoid earning my membership, anytime I'm operating any power equipment, primarily saws (chainsaw, radial arm saw, circular saw, etc. etc.)...The second I find myself getting "comfortable" with what I'm doing, I do a mental check and remind myself of the possible consequences of not staying completely focused on the task at hand.
 

[mikecva]

After reading of all the problems that comes with buying 'unknown' used hives, I started many years ago with 'store bought' boxes and have never regretted it. If you go with 'Unknown' boxes, I suggest you place them in a freezer for about a week to try to kill as many unknown eggs as possible.

Come winter I have little to do to keep me out of my wife;'s hair so for Christmas she gave me some more tools (as if I don't have enough). With these I spend my down time making my self extra cider boxes for my bees. It keeps me out of my wife's hair and I enjoy making the boxes.

If you do not have woodworking experience, the proper tools, the spare time or plans for making the propre boxes (allowing the proper bee space) then I suggest buying your boxes where everything except exterior painting is done for you. Enjoy your bees and let us know how things are going for you. So few new beeks ever sell us of how things are doing. It is nice to hear these stories.   -Mike

[theBeeLord]

I will definitely keep posting - i'm the kind of person that likes to be overwhelmed with information -- maybe not always BEFORE i start something ... :)  so i've been enjoying the FB group and this site with all the conversations and questions.
i thought i had researched a lot before i got the bees, but since i started i've done 10x more research.  my grandfather was a beek in Europe (50 years ago, which would be the equivalent of 100 years ago here) and it's been fun to talk to my dad (who never took up beekeeping) about how grandpa used to do things.  talk about natural and low-interference. 
i started my year with 2 hives - splitting a 4 lb package and 2 shipped queens -- with lots of fun from the get-go -- one queen was dead, and the other didn't arrive until the next day.  but bees did good - a little light on honey stores - feeding honey and sugar syrup - and monitoring them closely. 
as i mentioned, my goal for next year is to have about 6 hives, if not more -- we'll see how that goes.  i keep remembering the old saying: "man makes plans, and God laughs".   nothing like beekeeping to teach you that you don't control things. 

[danno]

Shipping of boxes from any of the dealers about doubles the price tag but most have free shipping coming soon for the holidays and mannlake has it year round.   If you decide to buy used most guys torch the insides just in case of foulbrood.  To do this stack a few high and toss in a burning newspaper.   Keep a tight fitting lid in hand because once the wax and propolis ignite things go fast.  A hose or bucket of could come in handy also.   If you decide to build I would suggest doing it right.   Learn to cut box joints.   A dado blade and table saw will do.   I dont build boxes any more but have built over 100 all with box joint corners and recest handholds.   The hand holds can be made with a simple jig and tablesaw also.   Some here build there own frames.   I thought of doing this once for about 2 seconds.   Then I realized just how close my fingers would be to the blade.  Mannlake deep frames are about 75 dollars a 100.   Sure some will say "I can make them for 1/10 that price but lets face it, with free shipping that .75 cents each plus the fit is always tight.   My personal opinion here is buy your boxes frames and foundation and build you tops, bottoms, feeders and maybe even a few nucs.   If you go to the beesource web page there is a large selection of plans   

[Moots]

My personal opinion here is buy your boxes frames and foundation and build you tops, bottoms, feeders and maybe even a few nucs.   If you go to the beesource web page there is a large selection of plans   

I'm close to danno on this one, except I'd say build your own boxes also....but as I've said, I enjoy it.  One caveat, unless your skill set and equipment is well above average, I'd strongly recommend doing a single rabbet joint instead of a box joint.  There's a lot of debate and opinions on which is technically "better"...Box joint has more surface area for gluing...But a rabbet joint only has half as much exposed end grain, etc. etc. etc. This issue can be, and has been, debated ad nauseam!

Even if you concede that a box joint is superior, you have to ask, is the payoff worth the added degree of difficulty, or is it simply overkill?

I'm a newbie, so how long my boxes will last is still an open ended question....However, I use a single rabbet joints, glue with Titebond III, and staple with a pneumatic staple gun.. I'm fairly confident that the joints on my boxes won't be the point of failure.  I guess time will tell.  :) 

[Variable]

Many good point above me so I do not want to kick that horse but my $0.02 is build your own. My reasons for this are simple. I want cedar hives. They are very expensive to purchase pre-built. I can go to the lumber yard in Tacoma WA (lowcostcedar) and get 5/4 X 8" at $0.75 a foot. My boxes are double walled and I need about 7 feet of lumber to build one box. One 8 foot board is $6. Each box cost me about $7 once I count the dowels that I use to hold them together (no nails or staples.... I think I was Amish in a another life.... lol) I am double walling them with a 10mm (3/8 inch) gap in the middle to put a layer of Spaceloft® aerogel blanket. (This one layer is about R-3.2 plus another R-1.1 per layer of wood (5/4 inch) and I get about R-5.5 in the hive... give or take)
I am doing this because I think this is something Langstroth would have done based on his own writings.  I guess time will tell if it is worth it.....

[Moots]

Many good point above me so I do not want to kick that horse but my $0.02 is build your own. My reasons for this are simple. I want cedar hives. They are very expensive to purchase pre-built. I can go to the lumber yard in Tacoma WA (lowcostcedar) and get 5/4 X 8" at $0.75 a foot. My boxes are double walled and I need about 7 feet of lumber to build one box. One 8 foot board is $6. Each box cost me about $7 once I count the dowels that I use to hold them together (no nails or staples.... I think I was Amish in a another life.... lol) I am double walling them with a 10mm (3/8 inch) gap in the middle to put a layer of Spaceloft® aerogel blanket. (This one layer is about R-3.2 plus another R-1.1 per layer of wood (5/4 inch) and I get about R-5.5 in the hive... give or take)
I am doing this because I think this is something Langstroth would have done based on his own writings.  I guess time will tell if it is worth it.....

Variable,
No nails or staples, just dowels...and double walled cedar...INTERESTING....VERY INTERESTING!  :)

I'd love to see some detailed pics if you don't mind sharing...