Mixing foundation and drawn comb in supers

TNjohn · March 31, 2014, 02:09:02 PM

I would like to increase my amount of drawn comb and maximize my honey crop (who doesn't?).

Can I mix foundation with drawn comb in my supers with nine frame spacers? I would put the foundation between two frames of drawn comb. Will I have cross comb, or burr comb issues?

Any advice would be appreciated!

10framer · March 31, 2014, 03:25:25 PM

it seems like we used to put foundation in supers with 9 frame spacers with no problems. even if it gets a little messy you'll be cleaning it up when you uncap it.

TNjohn · March 31, 2014, 04:45:31 PM

Thanks 10 Framer. I guess they can't make too big of a mess with nine frames in there. I will find out. :-D

merince · March 31, 2014, 05:38:45 PM

Depending on the flow they might draw it or just extend the drawn comb. Your best bet is to put either a whole super of foundation or put the foundation between brood combs.

Vance G · March 31, 2014, 06:33:47 PM

If you have a good strong flow most anything seems to work, except when it doesn't and they make you a huge mess. Shave your frames to 1 1/4" and draw 11 at a time until they are mostly drawn. If you can rotate the outermost frames in to the middle it will help. You may have a lot of work to do with a capping scratcher to extract but next time run them as few as 8 to a box. If you must have drawn combs and foundation in the same box. Put the foundation all tight together and fill in with drawn comb for best results in my experience.

tjc1 · March 31, 2014, 06:45:23 PM

Slight variation on the topic - has anyone set up supers with foundationless frames? Would that be any trickier than using foundationless frames in the deep?

Wolfer · March 31, 2014, 06:56:43 PM

Quote from: tjc1 on March 31, 2014, 06:45:23 PM
Slight variation on the topic - has anyone set up supers with foundationless frames? Would that be any trickier than using foundationless frames in the deep?

If you have two drawn frames put them in the middle with a foundationless between them. As its drawn slide them apart and put one between all the drawn ones. Repeat as needed.

If I'm starting completely empty I really have to keep an eye on them. If the first frame gets started crooked they'll all be crooked. When it starts to wander off I cut out the bad part and let them redo it.

Warning! In a good flow a strong hive will easily draw two medium frames a day. Things can get out of hand very quickly.

GSF · March 31, 2014, 10:56:41 PM

TNjohn;

Tell my ol' buddy (Police Chief) I said hi, and we'll be up to see him "maybe" in May or the last of April. We missed Townsend last week but it probably wasn't the best of weather.

BeeMaster2 · April 01, 2014, 06:36:04 AM

TNjohn,
Beautiful country you live in. We stay in Townsend and visit the surrounding country, especially Cade's Cove. We are planning a summer trip there right now.
Jim

Joe D · April 01, 2014, 11:21:21 AM

John, you can do it either way, I would give them a super of foundation. I have had them to draw the drawn comb out farther and just have a little comb on the foundation. It would be covering the foundation, just not out from foundation much. Good luck to you and your bees.

tjc1, it would bee about the same. I have done some foundationless in supers. You will have to go slow with the extraction, and make sure they are connected to frame pretty good. They extract OK second extraction, being older. I also did foundationless for comb honey.

Joe

Michael Bush · April 05, 2014, 10:12:30 AM

>Can I mix foundation with drawn comb in my supers with nine frame spacers?

If you put the foundation together and the empty frame together. if you intersperse them they will fatten the drawn comb and never draw the foundation (or foundationless). The combs will be too fat to get the frames out.

Variable · April 05, 2014, 12:52:03 PM

Quote from: Michael Bush on April 05, 2014, 10:12:30 AM
>Can I mix foundation with drawn comb in my supers with nine frame spacers?

If you put the foundation together and the empty frame together. if you intersperse them they will fatten the drawn comb and never draw the foundation (or foundationless). The combs will be too fat to get the frames out.

Does this apply to both honey supers and brood boxes? I thought it was best to put them "every other one" to get them to draw straight (foundationless) comb. Is that practice only for brood frames? Do they only fatten drawn comb used to store honey? I feel like I am about to have an epiphany... but don't want to make any assumptions.

HomeSteadDreamer · April 05, 2014, 03:10:22 PM

From my observations, yes, they will only fatten the honey comb. They like that comb very deep. The brood comb only needs to bee depth.

sc-bee · April 05, 2014, 04:04:40 PM

The big differnce is weather the honey is capped frames or not. If not they will fatten the comb. Best to put all the drawn together and all the foundation together. Like in foundationless which I don't do I think you use capped frames or drawn as a guide. Kinda similar.... a little :-D With brood frames you can intercede them because you are not as worried about them fattening the honey comb.

Michael Bush · April 06, 2014, 02:16:15 PM

>Does this apply to both honey supers and brood boxes?

No. Just honey supers.

> I thought it was best to put them "every other one" to get them to draw straight (foundationless) comb.

Assuming you don't spread them too thin, this works fine in the brood nest.

>Is that practice only for brood frames?

Yes. Brood comb is a consistent depth. They will not fatten it beyond that, they will draw a new comb. Honey storage is not a fixed depth. They will fatten it.

>Do they only fatten drawn comb used to store honey?

Correct.

greenbtree · April 06, 2014, 03:20:38 PM

What Michael and Merice said has exactly been my experience. Don't interspace in honey supers, you will just end up with monster comb on the ones already drawn out. Cool to walk in the house with and say "Look what I found!" but not what you are trying for.

tillie · April 14, 2014, 11:48:46 PM

You can put foundationless frames in honey supers as long as the empty foundationless frame is in between two capped frames of honey. Then they simply draw the frame and fill it. But between uncapped honey frames, the bees ignore the empty frame and make fat honey comb of the two uncapped frames.

I have been regularly "checkerboarding" my honey supers and its amazing how fast the bees work the foundationless - and we are not in the main nectar flow yet. When I add a new honey super, instead of putting the empty box on the hive, I set it on the inner cover on the ground and move frames 2, 4, 6, and 8 from the full super on the hive into the empty super on the inner cover. Then I lift the original hive box off for the inspection, if that's what I am doing. I'm only lifting half the weight and the hive will have a new box on it when I restack everything.

I have one hive with six supers on it already and another with five. And I've gotten three swarms in the last week. Looks like it might be a good bee year.

Linda T in Atlanta
(long silent, I know - really bee busy in Atlanta)

sterling · April 15, 2014, 01:44:37 PM

I have had the best luck in the honey supers by bringing up two frames that the bees are working [not capped yet] putting them in the middle with the empties on each side. You still have to check but usually they will draw the frame next to the ones they are working and go out. Sometimes they just go one way and you can slide the drawn frames over to the side as they draw the empties.