New Beekeeper in Connecticut needs advice

Grandesa · February 18, 2006, 10:15:59 PM

Hello-

I am in Guilford, Connecticut. I am renting a home until we find a home to buy in the area. In the mean time I was hoping to get my equipment picked out and possibly ordered.

I am thinking that I want to produce regular honey at first and possibly comb honey later on.

I am leaning towards purchasing my woodenware from Rossman Apiaries.

http://www.gabees.com/catalog/

The reason is that I like the idea of having longer lasting cypress rather than pine. I don't like the idea that the supers are rabbet joint rather than box joints.

Before I found out about cypress (and that Rossman is the only vendor of all cypress woodenware) I was leaning towards the sturdier hives from BetterBee in New York.

http://www.betterbee.com/departments2.asp?dept=119&bot=83

Wherever I get my woodenware I am contemplating using all 6 5/8" supers throughout the hive and not using 2- 9 5/8" for my brood chambers. The reason is that I could order all my supers and frames in one size and in bulk and I would be able to use my all my supers for honey or brood chambers. Does anyone think this is a bad idea? If you like the idea how exactly do you use all 6 5/8 supers instead of 2- 9 5/8?

Another thing I am considering is using black, 6 5/8 Pierco 1 piece frames and foundation.

http://www.iinet.com/~pierco/

I like the like the durability, toughness, and that they are made in the USA. Are there any drawbacks to this type of frame?

So what I need to know is whether cypress is better than pine for the cost, are rabbet joints not acceptable compared to box joints, is the idea of using 6 5/8's supers exclusively a good idea, and if so how do you go about using supers in this way, and are Pierco frames a good way to go for a frame type.

Thank you.

Ruben · February 18, 2006, 11:32:59 PM

Hello Grandesa, I am a newbie also. I started to get my woodenware from gabees.com but I ended up ordering one complete hive from Mannlake and another complete hive from Dadant, both were commercial grade and Mannlake was a little cheaper. After assembling both hives I wish I would have ordered both from Mannlake. That one fit together much better than the one from Dadant. I have heard of several people on here that use the 6 5/8 supers instead of the 9 5/8 hive bodies. I think most do it for a weight issue. It just so happened that I bought an air nailer/compressor last year from Lowes when I installed flooring and I can tell you that it made assembly of the hives 100 times easier. Good luch with your new adventure :)

amymcg · February 19, 2006, 08:05:51 AM

If you paint the pine, it will last a long time. I dont' think cypress is worth the extra expense.

Shipping charges from Betterbee will probably be lower than from rossman's. Heck, you could take a day trip to betterbee and go pick them up yourself.

TwT · February 19, 2006, 08:54:22 AM

Quote from: Grandesa
The reason is that I like the idea of having longer lasting cypress rather than pine. I don't like the idea that the supers are rabbet joint rather than box joints.

The pine if paint with about 3 coats will last as long as the cypress, I agree it isn't worth the extra cost.. beside, the cypress you buy now days is young cypress not the old cypress that gave cypress the name of being long lasting wood, it just doesn't last like it use to.. box joints are nice but if built correctly and glued well the rabbit is just as strong to me..

Quote from: GrandesaBefore I found out about cypress (and that Rossman is the only vendor of all cypress woodenware) I was leaning towards the sturdier hives from BetterBee in New York.

http://www.betterbee.com/departments2.asp?dept=119&bot=83

if you could pick you equipment up it will save price of shipping from Ga. beside if you could pick it up you could save enough money to buy a extra hive for the price you would pay for shipping

Quote from: GrandesaWherever I get my woodenware I am contemplating using all 6 5/8" supers throughout the hive and not using 2- 9 5/8" for my brood chambers. The reason is that I could order all my supers and frames in one size and in bulk and I would be able to use my all my supers for honey or brood chambers. Does anyone think this is a bad idea? If you like the idea how exactly do you use all 6 5/8 supers instead of 2- 9 5/8?

alot of people like all mediums, a bunch in this forum like it because it saves on back pain.

Quote from: GrandesaAnother thing I am considering is using black, 6 5/8 Pierco 1 piece frames and foundation.

I like the like the durability, toughness, and that they are made in the USA. Are there any drawbacks to this type of frame?

I have pierco 1 piece frames and foundation in all my hives, I really like them, I have had no problems with the bee's drawing them out. for now I cant say nothing bad about them. some people like wood and wax and some like wood frames and plastic foundation, its your choice..

Quote from: GrandesaSo what I need to know is whether cypress is better than pine for the cost, are rabbet joints not acceptable compared to box joints, is the idea of using 6 5/8's supers exclusively a good idea, and if so how do you go about using supers in this way, and are Pierco frames a good way to go for a frame type.

Thank you.

I would go with the pine, the cypress isn't worth the extra money, .......that's just my 0.02 cents worth

Kirk-o · February 19, 2006, 09:27:58 AM

I don't think we should buy cypress or redwood there is not much of it left.
buy pine and paint it kirko

Michael Bush · February 19, 2006, 11:01:38 AM

>I am thinking that I want to produce regular honey at first and possibly comb honey later on.

It's easier to produce the comb honey. You can just use surplus foundation in the supers and you won't have to buy an extractor.

>The reason is that I like the idea of having longer lasting cypress rather than pine.

I have 30 year old pine boxes with bees still in them.

> I don't like the idea that the supers are rabbet joint rather than box joints.

I have 30 year old pine boxes with butt joints that were glued and screwed with wood screws. Deck screws (which weren't available then) are even nicer.

>Before I found out about cypress (and that Rossman is the only vendor of all cypress woodenware) I was leaning towards the sturdier hives from BetterBee in New York.

If you ask Brushy Mt for them, I bet they'll sell you cypress.

>Wherever I get my woodenware I am contemplating using all 6 5/8" supers throughout the hive and not using 2- 9 5/8" for my brood chambers.

My thoughts exactly. Then I went one more step and cut all the ten frame equipment down to eight frames. Brushy Mt. sells eight frame equipment.

> The reason is that I could order all my supers and frames in one size and in bulk and I would be able to use my all my supers for honey or brood chambers. Does anyone think this is a bad idea?

I think it's a great idea, but mostly because of the interchanability for you and the weight.

> If you like the idea how exactly do you use all 6 5/8 supers instead of 2- 9 5/8?

Three ten frame mediums = two deeps.

Four eight frame mediums = two deeps.

>Another thing I am considering is using black, 6 5/8 Pierco 1 piece frames and foundation.

It won't translate well into cut comb later. I'd also prefer small cell, myself, the 9 1/4" (for 9 5/8" boxes) frames from Pierco are 5.25mm which is a step in the right direction (from the 5.4mm standard foundation) and the medium sheets are about 5.2mm but the medium pierco frames are about 5.35mm.

>I like the like the durability, toughness, and that they are made in the USA. Are there any drawbacks to this type of frame?

Not the right (but closer) cell size, in my opinion. The typical acceptance problems you have with any plastic. They won't work for comb honey.

>So what I need to know is whether cypress is better than pine for the cost

At the same cost I'd take the cypress. At more cost, I'd probably just buy the pine. It's not that big of a deal.

>are rabbet joints not acceptable compared to box joints

The box joint has twice the exposed end grain compared to the rabbet. Drill pilot holes and glue and screw them and they will last for 30 years. either way.

> is the idea of using 6 5/8's supers exclusively a good idea

Yes.

> and if so how do you go about using supers in this way

Just use them.

> and are Pierco frames a good way to go for a frame type.

Many people love them. PermaComb is FULLY DRAWN plastic comb and it's 5.1mm (even closer to 4.9mm) when you take into account the thicker wall that is already made. I'd get the PermaComb before I'd get the Pierco. But again, you have the acceptance issues you have with all plastic and you can't make cut comb honey from them.

Jack Parr · February 19, 2006, 11:30:19 AM

Quote from: Kirk-oI don't think we should buy cypress or redwood there is not much of it left.
buy pine and paint it kirko

Spoken like a true Cali-forn-ni-a enviro man. Truth to tell we should not drive any cars because, well, gasoline DOES NOT RE- GROW as do trees.

I live in a cypress growing area and the trees do in fact grow over and over again. They will in fact grow into " old cypress " past the new cypress if left alone to do so. As with most trees that are left to grow the heart wood is of course better and the larger the tree diameter the more heart wood. It does, however take quite a number of years for any tree to grow into " old lumber ". Since most of America is into " fast forward" there is no time left for trees to grow old and we use particle board, OSB and a number of manufactored concotions which can be made using new trees and will last until, well, the need for something new strikes.

BTW buying those hive boxes made with plastic, styrofoam, or any of those man made concotions should be avoided because well, the basic feed stock to make those is OIL. And we all know that oil DOES not grow back as do trees.

Now if one is into conservation there is a huge pile of new, almost new, old, very old, and very very old lumber, much of it cypress, in the Katrina struck area that is there for the taking. It's all, almost, going to the landfills.

There is usually, in built up areas many opportunities for salvaging good lumber to make things that is there for the taking. With all the non-stop building and construction always going on one can even pick and choose the type and quality of lumber. Just look around.

I know that this is off the bee topic, sorta, but the issue of conservation is a bit more that " don't buy a certain product because there isn't much left"?

So who is going to " park the car "? to save oil because there isn't much left? What have I proposed here :?: :?: :?: :P

By the way I bought cypress from Rossman. Three setups, for a friend and me. Since then I started making my own, using of course salvaged lumber, some redwood, some western red cedar, some pine and of course some OLD cypress. I do have some some pieces of real old cypress. " thanks to Katrina " called sinker cypress that I picked up from the street but it's so beautiful that I will just keep it for some special project?

Ah well, today is Sunday, somewhat chilly out and I just thought I would ramble on about non issues??? I will pay a visit to my doing great ruches and say bon jour to the Abeilles.

Paint the pine, keep it dry, it's all good.

Grandesa · February 19, 2006, 11:56:25 PM

Quote> is the idea of using 6 5/8's supers exclusively a good idea

Yes.

> and if so how do you go about using supers in this way

Just use them.

Meaning that you use 2- 6 5/8 supers in place of 2- 9 5/8 brood chambers or do you use more?

Quote> and are Pierco frames a good way to go for a frame type.

Many people love them. PermaComb is FULLY DRAWN plastic comb and it's 5.1mm (even closer to 4.9mm) when you take into account the thicker wall that is already made. I'd get the PermaComb before I'd get the Pierco. But again, you have the acceptance issues you have with all plastic and you can't make cut comb honey from them.

Could I use the PermaComb in the brood chambers and use Pierco in the honey supers? Would this be worth it?

Michael Bush · February 20, 2006, 07:28:13 AM

>Meaning that you use 2- 6 5/8 supers in place of 2- 9 5/8 brood chambers or do you use more?

Like I said:

>> If you like the idea how exactly do you use all 6 5/8 supers instead of 2- 9 5/8?

>Three ten frame mediums = two deeps.

>Four eight frame mediums = two deeps.

Since I don't use an excluder it doesn't matter to me. But if you want to use an excluder you need three ten frame mediums to equal two deeps OR four eight frame mediums to equal two deeps.

>Could I use the PermaComb in the brood chambers and use Pierco in the honey supers? Would this be worth it?

Personally, I'd use one or the other. The bees have to get used to either of these. With self drawn comb there's nothing for them to get used to. But giving the bees a choice, when it comes to plastic, is usually a bad idea.