Want to split hive, but can't find queen.

bossqwjw · April 20, 2014, 04:07:21 PM

I have a hive that has multiple swarm cells, and I looked thru it probably longer than i should but I can't find the queen to do a simulated swarm split.
Is there a good way to split it without finding the queen, or should I give it another go at finding her to do a proper split?

RHBee · April 20, 2014, 04:16:54 PM

Look up post by sc-bee. Got a queen excluder?

http://forum.beemaster.com/index.php/topic,44082.0.html

drlonzo · April 20, 2014, 05:03:13 PM

Put your bees through a shaker box. Nail a queen excluder to the bottom of an unused or old super. Place duct tape around the inside of th box about 3 inches from the queen excluder. Dump bees into the shaker above frames that you are going to use. Queen can't get through. Duct tape keeps bees from coming over the sides as they don't like the feel of the duct tape according to M Palmer.

Bush_84 · April 20, 2014, 05:09:23 PM

Maybe she is already gone.

bossqwjw · April 20, 2014, 05:13:11 PM

Looks interesting! Will have to give it a try tomorrow, cause I don't want to go back today. Put the girls thru enough for one day.
Do have an old queen/swarm trap on that my grand father used to use to keep them from swarming till I get back.
Would be great to catch her in it but would rather do a split

Wolfer · April 20, 2014, 05:22:41 PM

Quote from: Bush_84 on April 20, 2014, 05:09:23 PM
Maybe she is already gone.

This is my first thought.

RHBee · April 20, 2014, 05:39:27 PM

Quote from: bossqwjw on April 20, 2014, 05:13:11 PM
Looks interesting! Will have to give it a try tomorrow, cause I don't want to go back today. Put the girls thru enough for one day.
Do have an old queen/swarm trap on that my grand father used to use to keep them from swarming till I get back.
Would be great to catch her in it but would rather do a split

Don't worry about their feelings. While there is daylight there is time. No time like the present.

iddee · April 20, 2014, 05:52:24 PM

taranov swarming

http://www.dave-cushman.net/bee/taranovswm.html

RHBee · April 20, 2014, 06:08:44 PM

Quote from: iddee on April 20, 2014, 05:52:24 PM
taranov swarming

http://www.dave-cushman.net/bee/taranovswm.html

Thanks iddee, that looks like a good method for spring splits. I've looked at it but never tried.

bossqwjw · April 20, 2014, 06:33:48 PM

Quote from: Wolfer on April 20, 2014, 05:22:41 PM
Quote from: Bush_84 on April 20, 2014, 05:09:23 PM
Maybe she is already gone.

This is my first thought.

I thought about that too, but the hive is full of bees. If they swarmed already and 60% went with her, I would have loved to see it.
I don't think she is gone.

GSF · April 20, 2014, 09:44:48 PM

They may have superseded her.

RHBee · April 20, 2014, 10:45:41 PM

Quote from: GSF on April 20, 2014, 09:44:48 PM
They may have superseded her.

One thing is sure..you won't know till you look.

JackM · April 21, 2014, 08:52:10 AM

First, do you have eggs? Eggs = queen there. If so, just do the split but make sure each half has fresh eggs. Check again in 3 days, the one with eggs will be the one with the queen. Don't have to see her. (I never seem to be able to see my queens, but this method gets me where I want to be and not as much messing with their lives, done and over with.

10framer · April 21, 2014, 10:59:06 AM

Quote from: JackM on April 21, 2014, 08:52:10 AM
First, do you have eggs? Eggs = queen there. If so, just do the split but make sure each half has fresh eggs. Check again in 3 days, the one with eggs will be the one with the queen. Don't have to see her. (I never seem to be able to see my queens, but this method gets me where I want to be and not as much messing with their lives, done and over with.

this was closer to my way of thinking. since there are swarm cells i'd just make an even split making sure that each hive got swarm cells, open brood, nurse bees and stores.

BeeMaster2 · April 21, 2014, 12:29:08 PM

First question is were the queen cells capped? If so, they probably already swarmed. If you do a split and you cannot find the queen and you think she is still in there, move both hives to make her think she already swarmed. If the cells are capped and you still have lots of bees, make sure both hives have one or 2 queen cells and move one of them. Do this before any hatch. Good luck.
Jim

bossqwjw · April 22, 2014, 10:17:49 AM

First off, I want to say "Thanks!" for all of the good advice.

Went back into the hive yesterday and looked back through it. I had no eggs, or queen.
But I did have 4 queen cells, a bunch of capped/uncapped brood and lots of bees. So I did my split.

As I was finishing up the lady across the street came over and asked me if I wanted a swarm of bees. She noticed them in a tree when she came home from work, about half way up a magnolia tree 20 feet or so.

By the time I got over there they had moved into a smaller magnolia tree, 7 feet off the ground. So got a bucket and collected a nice sized swarm about the size of a soccer ball. :mrgreen:

MsCarol · April 22, 2014, 11:38:40 AM

Me thinks your neighbor lady answered the question. :-D

So one hive now equals three.

Along the same lines. I made a split on Saturday although I did find the queen and she is now in an 8 frame Medium with 2 frames of honey, 1 of mostly pollen, 2 frames of mixed brood including the one she was on, 2 frames of capped brood and one empty undrawn frame plus several good shakes of extra bees. As I don't have a separate yard, this new nuc is right next to the old hive which consists of 4 mediums. I left fresh eggs for them to make a new queen. I figured any field worker drift into the hive with the queen wouldn't harm the larger original hive.

My question is how soon will I need to add a second box to the new hive? The queen is still laying well but her age is unknown.

I am more interested in "growing bees" right now although the white clover is just starting to bloom so I am guessing the now queenless hive will use the broodless break to haul in the stores so I may have enough real honey to both Robinhood as well as rob a bit for myself and a gift to the neighbors.

As of yesterday both hive entrances were busy. My third hive had to be moved over a few feet thus my bee yard has been chaos the last weekend!!! :laugh:

RHBee · April 22, 2014, 11:48:13 AM

Based on the description of your colony, I'm betting the swarm is your bees.

BeeMaster2 · April 22, 2014, 12:18:30 PM

Quote from: bossqwjw on April 22, 2014, 10:17:49 AM
First off, I want to say "Thanks!" for all of the good advice.

Went back into the hive yesterday and looked back through it. I had no eggs, or queen.
But I did have 4 queen cells, a bunch of capped/uncapped brood and lots of bees. So I did my split.

As I was finishing up the lady across the street came over and asked me if I wanted a swarm of bees. She noticed them in a tree when she came home from work, about half way up a magnolia tree 20 feet or so.

By the time I got over there they had moved into a smaller magnolia tree, 7 feet off the ground. So got a bucket and collected a nice sized swarm about the size of a soccer ball. :mrgreen:

So nice of them to drop down to easy reach. :-D
They were waiting for you to provide them their new hive.
Enjoy.
Jim

bossqwjw · April 22, 2014, 04:22:54 PM

It was nice that they would cooperate.......... I don't really expect them to do it again. Bees do what Bees do. :th_thumbsupup: