How to save a dwindling hive?

tjc1 · April 22, 2014, 09:00:23 PM

Posted about this hive earlier - http://forum.beemaster.com/index.php/topic,44258.0.html. It came out of winter with lots of bees - when I first opened it in March, there was a mass of bees the size of half a soccer ball hanging from the inner cover. The next time I went in - a week or so ago - there were few bees, a queen, very little brood, and loads of stores. Today I went in and no different - very little brood, very few bees. I cleaned out that bottom, but there were fewer than 10 dead bees there - no sign of sickness. First question is "What happened?", second question is, "How can I save the hive?" I gave them a bucket of syrup and they didn't touch a drop. Between the upper and (beeless) lower deep there is an abundance of honey and pollen. I took off the lower deep after moving some full frames upstairs to replace some empties. At this point I am thinking that I the queen is not laying because there aren't enough bees to tend the brood and keep it warm. I am thinking that I should move them into a nuc box and relocate them to my home (this hive is 30 miles away at my school) so that I can watch them and maybe give them a frame of brood from another hive. How does this idea sound? Any other suggestions? I guess that there is likely no good answer to the first question, but if anyone has any insight, I'd appreciate it!

Joe D · April 22, 2014, 10:37:08 PM

The difference in the size of the colony may be from a swarm. With the very little brood, is it all drone or is there worker brood. If it is just drone brood you may have a laying worker. If there is worker and drone brood, keep an eye on the for a little longer, if their situation gets better good if not you may need to give them a new queen. Depending on the size of the colony and stores would determine how small a hive to put them in. I would like them closer to home. I may be way off, but that is what I would start with. Hope it helps.

Joe D

tjc1 · April 22, 2014, 11:02:28 PM

I thought about the swarm possibility except the weather has been so miserable here - only just now getting some days in the 50's and 60's. Though this hive swarmed on July 1st last year (its first year, starting as a package). What little brood there is is worker brood - didn't see any drone brood. They are on about 4 frames, but pretty light coverage at that. There must be a total of 13-14 frames with honey and pollen to some degree!

RayMarler · April 23, 2014, 08:32:07 AM

One thing you might try is to give them a frame of sealed brood from your stronger hive, and then swap positions of it with the stronger hive as well.

What you said about reducing them to a nuc and giving a frame of brood, and moving to your home is good idea as well.

HomeSteadDreamer · April 23, 2014, 01:14:40 PM

I'd give them a frame of capped brood and the nurse bees that are on that frame. I had one over winter that I thought I had a bad queen cause she just wasn't laying much and her numbers weren't climbing. But I think she just didn't have the bees to really be successful. I gave her 2 frames of brood and now she is laying well and the hive is expanding. I think there is a certain number of bees needed. I'd also make sure that on the brood frames you have some eggs somewhere so that if she is a bad queen they'll supercede her.

Wolfer · April 26, 2014, 12:55:17 PM

Seem to me that it's not just the number of bees it's the number of bees of the right age. Sometimes a frame or two of emerging brood will really perk them up.

tjc1 · April 26, 2014, 11:08:40 PM

I just got the hive home tonight and put a little heater underneath them to help them out until I can get them into a nuc. As soon as the weather allows I plan to give them a frame of brood - I'm just always paranoid about giving them the frame that the queen from the other hive happens to be hiding on... Does anyone have any sure-fire ways to make sure she is not on that frame?

sterling · April 26, 2014, 11:20:27 PM

Take a turkey feather and brush all the bees off.

chux · April 26, 2014, 11:51:25 PM

Go through the strong hive and put eyes on the queen. Then take a different frame for the weak colony.

Wolfer · April 27, 2014, 12:10:58 AM

There's generally not so many bees on a frame of capped brood as there is on open brood. You should be able to look it over pretty good.
If still unsure give it a good shake. I suspect if the queen was on it she would be one of the first to fall off.

While the queen may cross capped brood there's no reason for her to linger there unless there's open cells she can lay in.

tjc1 · April 27, 2014, 10:52:57 PM

Thanks for the good suggestions - I do want to give them the nurse bees with the frame of brood, too, to help them along, but I'll look for a frame of mostly capped/older looking brood.

tjc1 · May 20, 2014, 10:12:16 PM

So, I sent away for a replacement queen, which took a few extra days to arrive with postal issues. The day before she was to arrive, I went into the nuc to take out the non-producing queen to prepare the bees to accept a new queen - and what do I find? The original queen is laying up a storm!!! What!? Did she get wind of my plans or what?! Hive is back at school and now seems to be building up well... Go figure.

GSF · May 20, 2014, 10:36:18 PM

They always seem to be one step ahead of us.

Better.to.Bee.than.not · May 21, 2014, 12:40:03 AM

How do you know it is the original queen, was she marked? Either way it's good news, and you seem to be as good to go as you can be, congrats.

jayj200 · May 25, 2014, 11:24:36 PM

ESP it is like scary
well start a new box with the new queen
I would have thought a time for every season
jay

labradorfarms · May 26, 2014, 03:12:12 AM

Quote from: RayMarler on April 23, 2014, 08:32:07 AM
One thing you might try is to give them a frame of sealed brood from your stronger hive, and then swap positions of it with the stronger hive as well.

What you said about reducing them to a nuc and giving a frame of brood, and moving to your home is good idea as well.

I had a hive that was dwindling also. I followed a local Beeks advise which is the same as Rays.....
I tell you within a week, I noticed the hive improve. Now its been 3 weeks and that hive is booming... A extra frame of brood can and will make a difference.....