Problem After Hiving

Joe Burns · April 22, 2014, 11:20:09 PM

I'm a first year beekeeper, looking for some help. I've reached out to a couple more veteran Beekeepers about my dilemma, and they are at a loss for advice. I'll keep this as short as possible.

I live in southwest Ohio. I ordered two 3 lb packages of Russians with marked queens. My hives are brand new langstroths. New frames and foundations without comb.

I hived the bees 1 day ago, on Monday evening. After hiving, I noticed that a lot of the bees seemed to be congregating on top and on the sides of one of the hives, and assumed they were taking in some sugar water that I'd accidentally sprayed on the outside of that hive.

When I checked the hives today, I noticed that there were a lot of bees flying around the one hive, while there didn't seem to be much happening outside the other.

So, I pulled the top cover off the "busy" hive, and was surprised to see bees clustered all over the inside of the top cover, and all over the top of the inner cover.

So I looked in the other hive, and saw that there were hardly any bees in it. I checked the queen cage, and she was still there alive. There was a small cluster of bees around her cage. But like I said, this hive was otherwise basically empty.

It seems as though mostly all of the bees have decided to go to the one "busy" hive.

Not sure what to do. A beekeeper friend suggested giving them a few more days to see if they figure it out. She said some of the bees might go back to the slow hive. Another beekeeper suggested taking some of the bees from the "busy" hive, and transferring them to the other hive, and trying to force them to accept the other queen. But both admitted that they had never experienced this issue and were puzzled.

I'm clueless at this point, and would GREATLY appreciate any explanations or advice.

Thank you.

Steel Tiger · April 23, 2014, 12:31:27 AM

You could try moving some of the bees over to the empty hive and then swap hives.
I personally would make a nuc with the queen that has the lesser amount of bees until she has several frames of brood. As soon as she has emerging brood, put them back into the full size hive.

Joe Burns · April 23, 2014, 10:35:27 AM

Thanks for the feedback. What do you mean by "swap hives?"

Steel Tiger · April 23, 2014, 11:06:24 AM

swap the hives positions.

sterling · April 23, 2014, 10:30:34 PM

I would shake half of the bees back into the hive with the lonely queen and move it to somewhere else that the bees can't get to the hive they are trying to get into until the queen starts laying and has brood then bring them back.

Joe D · April 23, 2014, 11:02:30 PM

Do you have a feeder in the hives, that can help them want to stay. I would also try switching the positions of the hive. If you have a feeder in the hive, you may want to try closing the hive entrance, leaving gaps for air circulation, for a day or so after you get some of the bees back to it. Good luck

Joe

Joe Burns · April 23, 2014, 11:20:14 PM

Thanks for the feedback, Sterling and Joe D. Much appreciated. I have entrance feeders in both hives. I've also got entrance reducers on both hives, but I have them positioned with the larger opening (which is about 3 inches) facing out rather than the smaller opening (which is about an inch). I'm going to do as you suggest and try to move half the bees back to the hive with the lonely queen. I think I'll reduce the entrance in that hive. I probably won't get a chance to work on the hives until Friday, which is when I was planning to see if the queens have been released. If the queens have been released by Friday, I suppose this process will be more difficult, as I'll need to make sure I'm not moving the queen from the busy hive to the hive with the lonely queen.

Assuming the queens have not been released, will it be okay to go ahead and release the queens the same day that I move part of the bees?

drlonzo · April 24, 2014, 07:26:32 AM

After reading through your problem, it would seem to me that you have a couple problems indeed. Both of which can be solved fairly easy. Russian bees are a diff type of bee altogether then the standard italians most people are used to taking care of. When they make packages up, most of the package makers use italian bees and put a russian queen in with them. Under most circumstances that's to big problem, however with Russians the one thing most of the package makers don't tell you is that the Russian queens do not "SMELL" the same as a standard italian/carni. It takes longer for the italian bees to accept a real Russian queen. In fact if you visit the Russian Breeder's Association webpage http://www.russianbreeder.org/ and do some reading, it tells you all of this information. It also tells you about how to do a queen installation to get best results. Now for your problems at hand. I agree with most of the posters here, you need to shake out the proper amount of bees back into the hive with the fewer number of bees. Reduce entrance to min, and possibly move hive further away from the other one. The general idea is to give the bees more time to accept the smell of their new queen. If they don't, and continue to go back to the other hive, then you will have to put that queen and her devoted bees into a smaller hive like a nuc untill she broods up enough to put her into a big hive.

sc-bee · April 24, 2014, 07:51:16 AM

Never heard of anyone having this big a drift problem before. Split the packages again and move the bees away if you can, Away, far away, as in another yard if you have another location IMHO. It don't have to be for long, just long enough for them to bond with the queen. Then move them back. I did not respond earlier cause I have never had this issue but since responses are few my 2 cents for what it is worth.

Joe Burns · April 24, 2014, 10:20:37 AM

Thank you all for your suggestions. Rather than waiting until Saturday, I'm going to work on this later today (Thursday).

My main concern at this point is how to handle the issue of whether the queens have been released. Specifically, if the lonely queen has been released, will it be okay to shake half the bees back into her hive? If she has not been released, can/should I go ahead and release her before shaking half the bees back into her hive? I hived the bees on Monday, so I'm guessing that the queens have either been released or are close to being released.

Thanks again. I really don't have many experienced Beekeepers to turn to locally, so your help is sincerely appreciated.

drlonzo · April 24, 2014, 04:16:31 PM

Bigger chance is at this point the queens have been released. Hope they haven't though, makes it easier in a way. If they have been released, the bees that have bonded with the queen should be able to defend her as well. If they have not then just follow instruction, smallest entrance possible, and dump half the bees back in. Just make sure that if the queen that isn't lonely has been released that you DON'T put her into the hive with the lonely queen, that would be bad. Next if she has been released you will need to find her in the hive to make sure she doesn't get dumped and put her frame aside while you are doing this.

sc-bee · April 25, 2014, 12:23:25 AM

IMHO ----- If you can find the lonely queen and if released cage her and start you package over as if from scratch. Or find the queen in the big hive. Isolate her take what bees you want from the big package and do a queenless newspaper combine to the weaker hive. That maybe easier than you caging her if you are not comfortable with it. As said you will have to find both queens if released. Hopefully they are both still caged or at least one caged would be better than none as far as locating them.

Others may give you different advice ..... but for me when I have added tons of bees to a weak nuc etc at times I have lost queens. Just me....

AliciaH · April 25, 2014, 10:38:06 AM

I've seen this with Italian/Carni. A beekeeper down the road from me installed three packages. Two drifted to the third, just like you described. In the end, once the third queen was released, the entire 9 pounds absconded. Very sad!

I agree with all of the suggestions above but the one that rings best to me is moving the "weaker" queen away after you try to repopulate her.

In the case of the guy down the road, the only conclusion we could draw (with the help of others in our club) was that the bees had only been shook 24 hours before and Queen #3 had the best pheromones. Distance until your bees accept the "weaker" queen would help her if this is in any way true for you.

BTW, I say "weaker" only because she's still developing. She'll be fine once she has her own dedicated workers.

Let us know how it goes!