Drone laying what?

[D Coates]

I've got 2 hives that I did walk away splits with 3+ weeks ago.  I was in them yesterday to see what was going on.  In both of them there were eggs in drone frames.  The eggs were centered and single.  I found no eggs anywhere else.  The hives were acting like they were queenright.  The were large open areas in the centers of the middle frame and there was no excessive fanning or jumpiness from the hive.  Whomever is laying the drone eggs is going so in the right cells.  Would a laying worker do this or would a queen?  Are they both just starting to lay and this is where they're both practicing?  They are in different apiaries 2+ miles apart? 

I went ahead and put single frames of eggs in both hives so they'll tell me what's going on for certain in a few days but I'd like your thoughts.  I've not seen this before.

[BeeMaster2]

I've got 2 hives that I did walk away splits with 3+ weeks ago.  I was in them yesterday to see what was going on.  In both of them there were eggs in drone frames.  The eggs were centered and single.  I found no eggs anywhere else.  The hives were acting like they were queenright.  The were large open areas in the centers of the middle frame and there was no excessive fanning or jumpiness from the hive.  Whomever is laying the drone eggs is going so in the right cells.  Would a laying worker do this or would a queen?  Are they both just starting to lay and this is where they're both practicing?  They are in different apiaries 2+ miles apart? 

I went ahead and put single frames of eggs in both hives so they'll tell me what's going on for certain in a few days but I'd like your thoughts.  I've not seen this before.

First question, did either of these hives have the old queen?
If not, they would bee just starting to lay right about now. Single eggs centered, usually indicates a queen laid them.
Jim

[D Coates]

Neither hive had the old queen.  I found one dead the other one flat disappeared.  I thought the same about the single centered egg but I'd never seen this before.

[BeeMaster2]

Young queens need to learn what to do, give her time.
Jim

[Wolfer]

I'm a little south of you near ash grove. I've had trouble in the past with queens that were born too early not getting mated correctly. They would often lay in regular cells but the house bees knew they weren't right and drug them right out. Eggs in drone cells they left alone.
When given a frame of eggs they never would supersede. I had to kill her first.

I won't try to raise a queen here until the blackberries bloom although I'm sure it could be done earlier in an area with a higher hive per sq mi ratio.

In the past I was antsy to get started so I've seen several. Most layed worker eggs for a month or three before running out of sperm.
Woody Roberts

[D Coates]

Sawdustmaker,

I'm with you and hope we're right.  I'd never seen this before and then to find it in 2 hives on the same day.  It got me to wondering what's going on, if I was thinking right and if anyone else had seen this before.  I'll be a whole lot smarter in a couple days when I'll either find they're working on emergency supercedure cells or they're merely working a frame of open brood and hopefully she's laying by then.  

I can't afford to give them time here to make another queen if I expect them to have a population large enough to make surplus honey.

Wolfer,

This is a learning day for me.  I've never run into bees dragging out eggs from the wrong cells.  I'll just see laying workers leaving drone eggs pell mell in worker frames.  The workers would then raise them as best they could but it was a dead giveaway that they were laying workers as there are never any workers laid.  A queen running out of sperm always seems to give herself away by mixing her drone/worker eggs in the same frame.  I've had drones here in quantity for over a month but we did have the cold snap last week.  As I said earlier, I'll be a whole lot smarter in a couple days.  Sure hope it's not a queen shooting blanks.

[RayMarler]

Yes, that same thing has happened to me. I theorize it is the queens laying drones first to get her genetics out in the area. They did fine for me and started laying good worker brood, so yours should be fine.

[D Coates]

I sure hope that's the case!  Thanks for a bit of sunshine Ray.

[BeeMaster2]

I sure hope that's the case!  Thanks for a bit of sunshine Ray.

D,
Leave them bee for another week to let the worker brood develop and then inspect. The brood pheromone helps protect the queen from being replaced due to your interference.
Let us know what you find.
Jim

[D Coates]

Turns out, one of the hives had a queen, the other had a drone layer(s).  I shook the drone layer hive hive out and combined a strong 5-frame nuc with 5 empty frames in a 10 frame deep in the position.