Horizontal Hive Question....

[beebiz]

Hey All,

Thanks to Michael Bush's and Finsky's suggestion, I am going to try to build a horizontal hive to keep my bees int.  But, I have a couple of questions.

First, if using a 1"X10" board to make the box, will it be large enough if I build it to hold 20 of the Lang deep frames?  In other words, the same as two deeps.

Yesterday, I got my hands  on a couple of 1"X10" boards to use to make the boxes.  I intend to use Lang deep frames for the combs.  I don't have any way to make box joints, so I will be making square cuts, then screwing and glueing all joints.  I intend for the end of the board with the frame rest cut in it to be attached to the inside side of the board without the frame rest (I hope that made sense).  If the "two deep" size is large enough, how long should I cut the boards that have the frame rests cut in them?  Do I simply multiply 1 3/8" by 20 to get my answer or what?

Also, I've looked at the pics of the horizontal hives and I haven't seen any with inner covers.  If you don't use an inner cover, do you only cut the frame rest deep enough so that the top of the frame's top bars are flush with the top of the side?  Or, do you still cut a frame rest 3/4" deep to allow a 3/8" space between the top bars and the outer cover?

By the way, I also got my hands on some 1/8"X1/8" screen that I will use to make a screen bottom for the hive!

Thanks in advance for the input.  I have other questions, but will wait and ask them later.

[Michael Bush]

>First, if using a 1"X10" board to make the box, will it be large enough if I build it to hold 20 of the Lang deep frames? In other words, the same as two deeps.

There are several ways you can go.  One is to make the main hive horizontal but add supers on one end of it and try to keep the brood nest out from under there so you can get to it.  The other is to harvest often from the horizontal hive without the supers.  If you do the latter, then you probably need a bit more room than for the former.

I have a couple of "double" wide deep horizontal hives and one double wide Dadant deep.  If you harvested often you could probably get by with it, but you might have better luck with a triple wide, if you don't intend to use any supers.  A double wide will actually hold 22 regular hoffman frames.  You gain two frames worth, one from the 1 1/2" where the middle two walls would have been and one from the extra space that was on the two ends you combined.

>Yesterday, I got my hands on a couple of 1"X10" boards to use to make the boxes. I intend to use Lang deep frames for the combs. I don't have any way to make box joints, so I will be making square cuts, then screwing and glueing all joints.

That's what I've done on all of mine.

> I intend for the end of the board with the frame rest cut in it to be attached to the inside side of the board without the frame rest (I hope that made sense).

Exactly.

> If the "two deep" size is large enough, how long should I cut the boards that have the frame rests cut in them? Do I simply multiply 1 3/8" by 20 to get my answer or what?

No. I would build the hive twice as wide as a standard hive, which is 32 1/2".  The long sides would be that  minus the width of the ends (3/4 * 2 = 1 1/2") which is 31".

>Also, I've looked at the pics of the horizontal hives and I haven't seen any with inner covers. If you don't use an inner cover, do you only cut the frame rest deep enough so that the top of the frame's top bars are flush with the top of the side? Or, do you still cut a frame rest 3/4" deep to allow a 3/8" space between the top bars and the outer cover?

I have cut mine 3/4" to leave the 3/8" beespace on top.  A one by ten isn't going to be quite deep enough.  I suppose if you're building a seperate bottom board you can get by with the 9 1/4" wide one by ten, if not you'll have to add 3/4" to 1" onto the botom to get the bottom space.

I just propped the migratory cover with some 1/4" screen molding to make the entrance.

>By the way, I also got my hands on some 1/8"X1/8" screen that I will use to make a screen bottom for the hive!

That's what I used on most of mine.

[beebiz]

Thanks for responding Michael.

MB wrote:

There are several ways you can go. One is to make the main hive horizontal but add supers on one end of it and try to keep the brood nest out from under there so you can get to it.

This is how I would like to set up my first hive.  That way, I can easily get to the brood area or harvest the honey without having to disturb the entire hive and without having to lift all those heavy boxes.  It will also enable me to make use of the Lang mediums that I have.  But, I don't intend to allow the super to get full before I harvest it.  Instead, I intend to allow the girls to fill most of the frames, cap the honey off, remove the capped frames, move the uncapped to the center and finish filling with empty frames.  Kind of a twist on the way a TBH is harvested.


MB wrote:

I have cut mine 3/4" to leave the 3/8" beespace on top.

I figured it would be best to do this.  Otherwise, I figured the girls would glue the outer cover down so tight that it would either tear up the outer cover or distirb all of the brood frames when trying to remove it.


MB wrote:

A one by ten isn't going to be quite deep enough. I suppose if you're building a seperate bottom board you can get by with the 9 1/4" wide one by ten, if not you'll have to add 3/4" to 1" onto the botom to get the bottom space.

It is my intention to make a frame with three sides out of a 1"X1" (cut from a scrap 2"X4"), attach the screen to the frame, then attach the frame to the hive.  That way, if we get any really cold, bad weather I can easily slide a thin piece of cardboard through the entrance (created by leaving one of the 1"X1" frame boards off) and cover the screen.  When the cold weather is over, I can simply slide the cardboard out.  And, if I ever need to move the hive, I can simply insert the 4th 1"X1" board, screw it down, staple the screen down and the girls can't get out.

I thought I'd also allow the screen to stick out about 2" to 3" from under the hive to allow for a landing area for the girls.  Being made from screen, when it rains no water would be channeled to the inside.

Okay, what do you think of my plans so far?

[Michael Bush]

>This is how I would like to set up my first hive. That way, I can easily get to the brood area or harvest the honey without having to disturb the entire hive and without having to lift all those heavy boxes.

Then you need to work the brood nest to one end and put the supers on the other.

>I figured it would be best to do this. Otherwise, I figured the girls would glue the outer cover down so tight that it would either tear up the outer cover or distirb all of the brood frames when trying to remove it.

If you use typical frames and cut it 5/8" you'll end up with a 1/4" beespace which will do, but it's too crowded to put pollen patties on etc.

>It is my intention to make a frame with three sides out of a 1"X1" (cut from a scrap 2"X4"), attach the screen to the frame, then attach the frame to the hive. That way, if we get any really cold, bad weather I can easily slide a thin piece of cardboard through the entrance (created by leaving one of the 1"X1" frame boards off) and cover the screen. When the cold weather is over, I can simply slide the cardboard out. And, if I ever need to move the hive, I can simply insert the 4th 1"X1" board, screw it down, staple the screen down and the girls can't get out.

I just slide the tray UNDER the screen.  I put them in for winter and remove them in the summer.

>I thought I'd also allow the screen to stick out about 2" to 3" from under the hive to allow for a landing area for the girls. Being made from screen, when it rains no water would be channeled to the inside.

I haven't tried one, but those who have say the bees tend to lose their pollen when they land on the screen.  I keep meaning to try this principle to make a pollen trap.

[beebiz]

MB wrote:

Then you need to work the brood nest to one end and put the supers on the other.

That's what I was going to do.  Do you have to constantly work the brood area toward the front of the hive, or do they tend to keep it there once it is in the front like they do in a TBH?


MB wrote:

If you use typical frames and cut it 5/8" you'll end up with a 1/4" beespace which will do, but it's too crowded to put pollen patties on etc.

I was going to cut the frame rest 3/4" deep (3/8" for the frame plus 3/8" for the bee space).  Should that be enough?  If not, what would your best recommendation be to solve this problem?  During the time that I have to use pollen patties, should I just add a shim say, 1/4" or 3/8" thick between the box and the outer cover?  Suggestions???


MB wrote:

I just slide the tray UNDER the screen. I put them in for winter and remove them in the summer.

I was going to do it with a 1"X1" frame to give the added space needed at the bottom of the frames when using a 1"X10".  Adding the frame would make it 10 1/4" deep from the top of the box to the top of the screen.


MB wrote:

haven't tried one, but those who have say the bees tend to lose their pollen when they land on the screen. I keep meaning to try this principle to make a pollen trap.

I didn't think about that.  I suppose that I could easily put a removable pan directly under the landing area and just see how much pollen they lose.  If they don't lose too much, I could collect the pollen to feed back to them when they need it.  That would be WAY cheaper than buying the stuff.... and safer too!  And, if it appears that they are losing too much I could always remove the screen and put a landing board in place of it.  Your thoughts??

[Michael Bush]

>That's what I was going to do. Do you have to constantly work the brood area toward the front of the hive, or do they tend to keep it there once it is in the front like they do in a TBH?

They put it where ever they put it.  I try to work it to the back of the long box so I can put the supers on the front and force the field bees THROUGH the supers.  It seems like they are more willing to put the honey in a space they already know about and have to go through than one that is in the back of the hive that they may not have gone through.


>I was going to cut the frame rest 3/4" deep (3/8" for the frame plus 3/8" for the bee space). Should that be enough?

Exactly.  That's enough for a maximum beespace of 3/8" which gives you room for pollen patties etc.

> If not, what would your best recommendation be to solve this problem? During the time that I have to use pollen patties, should I just add a shim say, 1/4" or 3/8" thick between the box and the outer cover?

I do that on the front one anyway.  Even though you end up with a little over the maximum beepsace they don't tend to burr it up where the entrance is.

>I was going to do it with a 1"X1" frame to give the added space needed at the bottom of the frames when using a 1"X10". Adding the frame would make it 10 1/4" deep from the top of the box to the top of the screen.

10 1/4" sounds good.

>I didn't think about that. I suppose that I could easily put a removable pan directly under the landing area and just see how much pollen they lose. If they don't lose too much, I could collect the pollen to feed back to them when they need it. That would be WAY cheaper than buying the stuff.... and safer too! And, if it appears that they are losing too much I could always remove the screen and put a landing board in place of it. Your thoughts??

That can work, but you'd need a "porch" over it to keep the rain out of the pollen.  IMO a landing board is a waste and is just ASKING skunks and mice to come.  Did you ever see a bee tree with a landing board?