Feeding Bees and drowning Bees new PACKAGES Is it worth the sacrifice?

labradorfarms · May 26, 2014, 02:43:18 AM

I have found myself wondering if the 50 to 100 bees found dead in the feeders filled with sugar syurp ,once a week are worth is building comb?
Would you be better of not feeding the bees since they cant drown the natural way?

I know SS aids them in building comb but is it worth the Bee's you loose due to drowning?
Dead bees cant help the hive in any way!

GSF · May 26, 2014, 06:55:50 AM

There's something wrong about the way you are feeding them. You can take an entrance feeder and place it away from the hives. Once they find it they'll wear it out. However, with my new packages I've used the entrance feeders and reduced the entrance.

Better.to.Bee.than.not · May 26, 2014, 07:44:30 AM

ya, you do not need to drown bees to feed them. If you are using a over turned jar, or a open bowl or something, put semi large rocks at the bottom for the bees to climb on to take sips. Bees are lousy swimmers.... and they just do not have the sense not to land right in water/etc. for some of my dishes/etc. I take small pieces of the plastic air bubble packing plastic stuff...you know, the stuff you like to pop with your fingers, and put some of that floating on the top of buckets or ponds/etc. for the bees to land on, or like I said rocks they can go inbetween to the bottom, or climb on.

RHBee · May 26, 2014, 10:24:03 AM

Those bee drowning feeders have been used a long time so they must be effective. I however couldn't get my head around so many desd bees. I found some plastic buckets at Lowe's, 5qt, poked 10 holes in a 2" circle in the center of the lid. Filled it with syrup and inverted it over the inner cover hole.
Get 1 and play with it. Don't cost much.
Ray

labradorfarms · May 26, 2014, 05:22:02 PM

I have never seen buckets used but read about them. Do they not keep the hive wet wouldn't they be dripping constantly in hot weather and attract ants due to always dripping???

If they would get rid of drowning and not cause more probloms , I would try it....

How big should the holes be? How many?

I normaly only feed a gallon at a time.

Steel Tiger · May 26, 2014, 05:36:47 PM

Quote from: labradorfarms on May 26, 2014, 05:22:02 PM
How big should the holes be? How many?

Use the smallest drill bit you can find. 1/2 dozen - a dozen holes should be plenty.

RHBee · May 26, 2014, 06:06:10 PM

Quote from: Steel Tiger on May 26, 2014, 05:36:47 PM
Quote from: labradorfarms on May 26, 2014, 05:22:02 PM
How big should the holes be? How many?

Use the smallest drill bit you can find. 1/2 dozen - a dozen holes should be plenty.

What ST said in the center of the pail lid. I made my holes in a 2" circle placed evenly like a checker board. After filling when you first turn them upside down you get a rush of liquid then it stops. I invert behind the hive then place over the inner cover hole. Robo has a good feeder comparison on his site.

http://robo.bushkillfarms.com/

labradorfarms · June 01, 2014, 01:13:45 PM

I got my bucket feeders on yesterday. I drilled about 20 holes in the lid. I used a 1/16 drill bit very small. Turned it over and as you guys said. A rush of SS came out then abruptly stopped. I put the bucket on top of two good sized sticks over the innercover.

The holes to me seemed kinda of small, but I will check them out in a a few days to see how things are going.

Kathyp · June 01, 2014, 02:08:44 PM

QuoteThose bee drowning feeders have been used a long time so they must be effective.

no, but they sell.

i like bucket feeders, but i like them better with a small circle cut in the lid and fine screen put over that. if you are drilling holes, they need to be tiny. bees stick their tiny tongues out to get the syrup :-D

QuoteI put the bucket on top of two good sized sticks over the innercover.

make sure that bees can't get under there and rob or if you put a box on top, that they can't get into the box. you are better to put the feeder flat on the cover and if it needs support, put the sticks under the inner cover on top of the frames.

Ryan820 · June 01, 2014, 06:12:22 PM

I use a poultry waterer with pebbles in the reservoir. I fill it up so much that when you observe bees feeding from it, all you see are their little butts sticking out because they have to reach to get it. I too drowned many bees but not any more.

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buzzbee · June 01, 2014, 07:45:06 PM

Rossmans sell a plug with a screen on it to insert into a bucket feeder .
http://www.gabees.com/store/product_info.php?cPath=34&products_id=252
http://youtu.be/qnGmff7LAL0
http://youtu.be/QU1U5iuJ1Rw

Better.to.Bee.than.not · June 01, 2014, 07:56:59 PM

The ignorance with pure vacuum pail or bottle feeders, imo is when it gets hot, the liquid expands thus creating pressure and the vacuum doesn't hold necessarily. I ran into that when using mason jars. it works, of course, but unlike a entrance feeder that has a reservoir, it can leak a lot. Certainly do not want that all over the inside of my hives. If you use a container on the outside, with rocks or what have you, the whole thing acts like a airlock. if the liquid expands inside, when it is hot, it will contract when it cools and suck the liquid back up into it later, no flooding possible.

My mother used to have vacuum held hummingbird feeders she hung from a tree and she was so proud that they were drinking all this syrup..she would fill them and fill them, exclaiming how much they were drinking. they were not, intermittently you could see them drip out on hot days as the liquid expanded inside. The only ones that work well have trays underneath as a reservoir.

buzzbee · June 01, 2014, 10:05:54 PM

I have never had a problem with the bucket feeder or jars. Entrance feeders alert robbers. I have seen entrance feeders leak out the bottom boards.

Kathyp · June 01, 2014, 10:22:04 PM

QuoteIf you use a container on the outside, with rocks or what have you, the whole thing acts like a airlock. if the liquid expands inside, when it is hot, it will contract when it cools and suck the liquid back up into it later, no flooding possible.

you don't want to open feed after the spring. you will attract all kinds of nasty things. if you use a feeder that has an opening into the reservoir, be sure to screen that opening. if your reservoir goes dry, the bees will climb inside and you'll have a lot of dead bees.

yes there can be some dripping as liquid expands and contracts. that's not really an issue in the warm weather and the bees clean it up. it's more an issue if you are feeding early in the spring or late in the fall and the temps drop. if the bees cluster in the cold and get wet, it can be a problem.

i put no more than 5 holes in the jar lid. i use a panel nail and just poke the tip through. if 5 holes drip a little, no big thing.

Ryan820 · June 01, 2014, 11:13:21 PM

The thing is, nothing is definite. People say not to feed after spring, but what does that mean? The south of the US is already in summer, but in Colorado or Minnesota or Vancouver are not. Feeding is necessary for new hives, period. How you chose to feed them is up to you. It's not easy but honestly, getting out in to my local environment is what helped me determine if I need to keep feeding. Once you learn and observe your environment you'll know what your bees are up to. For my package, I noticed three things:
1. The bee population began to grow, quickly
2. The bees were very active, bringing in tons of pollen and what I assume is also nectar
3. They slowed their use of the syrup dramatically. Certainly, they kept feeding but once when they'd consume a gallon in a week, they now consumed half or less in the same time. So I removed the feeder once empty...no need to waste it...and now they're on their own but with my watchful eye!

In the end, you have to do what many on here do... Learn the forest and fields around you. Take notes, actually keeping a notebook, of what you see and when. Keeping bees is very scientific and also very instinctual.

I'm so happy to be a bee keeper. It's opened up a realm of existence I knew was there but never saw until I saw things through the eyes of the hive.

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OldMech · June 02, 2014, 11:56:18 PM

Quote from: kathyp on June 01, 2014, 10:22:04 PM
QuoteIf you use a container on the outside, with rocks or what have you, the whole thing acts like a airlock. if the liquid expands inside, when it is hot, it will contract when it cools and suck the liquid back up into it later, no flooding possible.

you don't want to open feed after the spring. you will attract all kinds of nasty things. if you use a feeder that has an opening into the reservoir, be sure to screen that opening. if your reservoir goes dry, the bees will climb inside and you'll have a lot of dead bees.

yes there can be some dripping as liquid expands and contracts. that's not really an issue in the warm weather and the bees clean it up. it's more an issue if you are feeding early in the spring or late in the fall and the temps drop. if the bees cluster in the cold and get wet, it can be a problem.

i put no more than 5 holes in the jar lid. i use a panel nail and just poke the tip through. if 5 holes drip a little, no big thing.

Good advice. I have started using lids with only three holes to slow them down a bit. The 20+ tiny hole lids you get with starter kits/boardmans will let them suck in a quart a day or more. AND they will leak more. Three holes still gives them syrup, but it takes them longer to get it, and with three holes the jars drip less.
Put an empty box over your jars with a tele cover on them. It will stop the sun from heating the jar swiftly in the morning and causing them to leak. There is an element of common sense to everything, even feeding bees.
If you insist on using a boardman style entrance feeder, at LEAST drill a hole or two against the back bottom furthest from the hive. If your hive is tilted slightly forward, as it should be, then the leaking syrup will drip from these holes rather than build up in the feeder and drown bees, or worse, start leaking into the hive along the entrance reducer and cause a robbing fiasco.

Colobee · June 03, 2014, 09:15:08 PM

There is some science behind inverted feeding. The more holes you put in an inverted feeder, the more likely it is to "drip". My 3lb packages will take 1 quart in a day (actually,12 hrs), through 5 tiny (3/32") holes in the center square inch of a mason jar lid. 2 quarts will sustain them for ~1 week with no flow. I suspect "drowning" may occur more frequently when a well intended beekeeper figures "more holes, more food", or fails to get a good seal on the lid. Been there, done that with gallon buckets in the out yard days.

Elsewhere - one can restrict the feeding (size/number of holes) to still feed, yet circumvent backfilling the broodnest. Of recent, I've been adding 1500mg of powdered vitamin C to my gallon of syrup recipe (see Bush). This brings the ph down into the upper range of honey, a consideration worth looking into.

Feeding: a million ways to do the same thing :-D

buzzbee · June 03, 2014, 09:42:24 PM

I agree,more holes are not necessarily better.

Vance G · June 03, 2014, 09:50:22 PM

Unless you are incapable of closing the zip on a zip lock bag and making sure that the hive is fairly level and the bag is supported at all corners by a frame, no bees will drown and at a dime a use, they are within the financial range of most people. A miller feeder that is made so it does not leak and has hardware cloth screen over the syrup tanks will not drown bees either.

labradorfarms · June 05, 2014, 06:04:14 PM

I may have failed to mention. My feeders are not open or boardmans. I am using one gallon paint cans that are covered with a deep super and a telescoping cover.

I went and check to see how the cans were working yesterday. They still were heavy with SS and many Bees were drinking.. I only noticed a few drops of SS on the frame below.