Feeding and Behavior Question

[GenXr]

Hi Everyone!

I installed a 2 new hives March 21, 2014. From the start one of them far outpaced the other to the point of one beginning to fail. At inspection there were 3 queen cells, so although I had a queen at first, something obviously happened and they were making a new one, although still weak. A week later they were overran by SHB which obliterated any chance for them. So I finished that one off and focused on the strong hive. I suspect my mistake was trying to set up a package in a 10 frame from the start. From what I understand now, I should have started with a nuc--especially considering my geographic area of Midstate SC and how it seems to be a much better location for SHB and other pests. From videos and other comments I've seen and read, in other states it may be possible to get away with using a larger hive from the start. That said, I've learned a hard lesson on space management.

Now the stong hive seems to really be kicking it, but there are some oddities I would like some input on. I never really could tell if a 'flow' came and went and I'm not sure what is available in NE Columbia, but they have never not taken syrup. From other advice I've gotten, they should have, at some point during a flow, stopped taking the syrup. So get this--I go on vacation for a week and don't change out the syrup. They ran out and killed all the drones as if it's dearth time. I expected that to happen later in the fall. I inspected the hive and it's not bound (1 deep and 2 mediums) they are working on the top medium (uncapped). What am I seeing here?

Also, I'm not aware of any other beeks near me as a source of SHB; however, these bastards are relentless. I'm managing the soil with drench, traps, and elevated hives, so I'm pretty confident that I have the lifecycle under control on my end, but I can sit out there at dusk and see these things fly in EVERY night. Over a 30 minute period I will typically see 4 or 5. Some are contained by the guards or I'll smash them in rage, but probably 50% of them slip by and into the hive. How are these not creating more catastrophe out there, or are they?

Any advice or input on these observations would be great!     

[rookie2531]

I'm new this year also, but I have been doing a lot of reading, asking and video watching. I installed one hive this past spring and never did stop feeding as they too superceded the package queen. I suspect two queens hatched and one swarmed and so did the package queen. Leaving me with maybe two frames worth of workers. I never let them run out of syrup even though they were bringing in nectar also. They did both nectar and syrup. The uncapped is nectar or syrup that just hasn't dried out to there liking yet, I think. I don't have any shb though, even though I killed two right after install as they came with the package, I saw them fall in the hive as I was dumping them in. I installed them in a ten frame with foundation. I feed them half a patty and when I saw them bring pollen in I did not give them any more of that though. I have seen video of a guy in Georgia putting some gel in a trap and looked like he was killing a ton of them with it. Hope someone can tell you about it, and chime in and help you more. Good luck getting rid of them.

[GenXr]

Thanks for the input . . .

I can't believe that after all the views I've received only 1 reply from all the "beemasters!"

[sc-bee]

Learning to live with the shb will be a part of SC beekeeping. Sounds like you had issues with one packge from the beginning. Either accidentally killed the queen or just a package supercedure. The package supercedures are becoming more and more frequent. Starting a 3lb package on new foundation in a ten frame box should not have been an issue. If using drawn comb that is a different issue. If new to beekeeping and you would have placed them in a five frame nuc..... if not real careful they would be in the trees before you know it  :bee:
I am not sure I ever had what I would call a legitimate flow this year here in the edge of the field :0) I had very little white wax and it was very late. I should have seen white wax around the first or second week of April. Around Masters time frame. Also that generally time period or a little earlier major swarm season kicks in. This was definitely my worse season since my first ten years ago. My first year was also shb learning period,> I made the fatal mistake of wanting more bees and split my two strong hives. I came home from fourth of July vacation to find a maggot infested mess. Saved one hive of four :(

[sc-bee]

 Also some folks will tell you they will stop taking sugar water when there is a flow. Not necessarily so....not when it is right there for the taking. Too much feed will honey bind the queen if not careful.

[GSF]

Genxr, I've had queen problems as well. 3 of the 4 packages lost their queen within the first 30 days. About half my splits with homemade queens lost theirs as well. Just about two days ago I saw a queen on the carpet in front of a hive. I picked her up and she went back in the hive with no resistance. As far as the replies, there's a lot of folks out there just learning and aren't grounded enough to comment yet.

[GenXr]

Thanks, y'all!

This is clearly a much different adventure than when my dad got his first swarm when I was a child. The bees were more aggressive at that time and we certainly didn't have the beetle and mite problems. Add to that the bizarre weather my area has experience the last few years: incipient drought followed by catastrophic rains last year. The biggest thing back then was wax moths! Is this even sustainable when a colony that gets even slightly sideways is pretty much toast if you are in a warmer/humid climate? That is, northern, midwest, and west (cold or arid) areas seem to have an advantage in the fight (at least as far as the beetles are concerned).

The physical methods that worked for 150 years apparently need to evolve into a less invasive inspection and management procedure. The need to feed so much because of unreliable nectar flows and parasitic invasion at the slightest weakness or disruption is crazy. This may be exiting the realm of a hobbyist who can't devote full time to keeping the patient(s) on life support.

I'm hardly saying to give up, but consider the idea that this isn't like having some chickens or a cow in the back yard any more. Simple and innocent mistakes can turn a hive into ground zero for thousands of beetles moving onto other susceptible hives. I think I read on here where someone had noticed a couple of beetles and flicked them into the grass and then asked if they were a bad thing. Nowadays something as simple as that can turn into castrophe. I've made conscious effort to educate myself on these pests and am trying to manage them responsibly, but for all I know, someone down the street isn't being a responsible steward and keeps sending them my way.

Thoughts? 

[capt44]

I use the beetle barns you seen in that video in Georgia.
I usually put 2 to the hive one on top of the frames and one on the bottom board.
The jel they are using is Combat Roach Killer!
Here in Arkansas I can only use Check Mite Strips cut into pieces and placed inside the traps.
My Bee Yards are inspected 3 times a year because I raise bees and queens for sale.
I tried the drench you put on the ground but I think peeing on the ground has about the same effect.
If your hives are weak look out for the small hive beetles will over whelm them.
Strong hives have a better chance but not much more.

[sterling]

The bees can handle the beetles if you don't give them to much room to patrol for the amount of bees in a hive. Keep them crowded. Also if they have queen problems they seem to loose the will to fight beetles and wax month. If the queen is not doing good replace her.

[sc-bee]

I use the beetle barns you seen in that video in Georgia.
I usually put 2 to the hive one on top of the frames and one on the bottom board.
The jel they are using is Combat Roach Killer!

Fripronil..... bad stuff. Do you really think it stays in the trap???

[sc-bee]

GEnX just try and keep them strong and you will be ok. If you get to the point of splitting hives make strong splits with only the amount of comb they can protect.

Just remember strong hives and as much full sun as possible. Start with a couple and get you feet on the ground. You will get it....

[GenXr]

From the Combat FAQ:

8.Are Combat® products safe to use in a food pantry?
Answer:

Combat ant and roach bait stations can be used in a food pantry. Combat ant and roach gels may also be used in a food pantry with care, but keep exposed gel away from open foods and food contact surfaces.

And a bit more research on fipronil, the active ingredient, reveals this:

Colony collapse disorder

Fipronil is one of the main chemical causes blamed for the spread of colony collapse disorder among bees. It has been found by the Minutes-Association for Technical Coordination Fund in France that even at very low nonlethal doses for bees, the pesticide still impairs their ability to locate their hive, resulting in large numbers of forager bees lost with every pollen-finding expedition.[21] A 2013 report by the European Food Safety Authority identified fipronil as a "a high acute risk to honeybees when used as a seed treatment for maize and on July 16, 2013 the EU voted to ban the use of Fipronil on corn and sunflowers within the EU. The ban took effect at the end of 2013."[22][23]

So, sure, it works, but is this a responsible method?

[sc-bee]

The use of home chemical treatments is far wider than you can ever imagine. I know a guy who was told by a friend at a bee meeting, down your way Genx, to use Maverick. The keeper was opening the hive and when he saw hive beetle powdering them with Maverick right on top of the frames  :jawdrop:
The guy in Georgia promotes the fripronil gel in a you tube video and sells the gel tubes and little containers to place it in. He is also a small scale queen breeder.

Some folks use the boric acid I think a softer chemical but still a roach killer. A handful of years ago, six or so, a prominent bee researcher at a University told me when funds were available they were going to look into the use of boric and shb control. I asked a few years later and no response. Is it due to funding or pressure from companies that sell other approved chemicals for shb treatment?

Bottom line is how many folks - breeders included (their livelihood) are using these methods to keep their bees alive a little longer. The stress placed on a colony in a Southern state to raise queens, pull packages, mate queen in a small mating nuc in a shb infested area. Not pointing fingers just wondering? Heck I made some late splits that I wonder if they are going to make it..... late spits with cell have given me trouble in the past- this time I went with mated queens.

All the above said we then wonder why our queens last one season, our bees die, and our packages abscond  :?

[GenXr]

It's very sad and we're destroying our world this way. This is just a beekeeping forum, but look out of the foxhole and see how the same mentality is affecting everything we touch in an irresponsible manner. Just as bacteria develop resistance because of indisciminate use of antibiotics, here is a outtake from a study in New Zealand showing how Mavrik has screwed us. Keep in mind that when it says 'beekeepers overseas' it is referring to the good 'ol USA. It only stands to reason, and science, that the same is going to happen with SHB and, well, you name it.

7.4 How beekeepers have created resistant varroa
Beekeepers have unwittingly created resistant varroa in a very similar manner to the way
scientists do it in the laboratory.

7.4.1 Use of Mavrik
Apistan strips contain the pesticide fluvalinate. The strips are formulated to slowly release
fluvalinate at a constant rate for a given period of time to control varroa. The strips should
be removed after this time. The strips are expensive, however, and it didn't take
beekeepers overseas very long to discover that Mavrik, a common horticultural spray, also
contains fluvalinate and is a fraction of the cost of Apistan strips (Mavrik is a bulk liquid
rather than an expensive, slow-release plastic strip). Beekeepers found that pieces of
cardboard dipped in a very weak Mavrik solution were very effective at controlling varroa
in beehives.
However, because Mavrik dissipates quickly (i.e., it is not in a slow-release strip), using
Mavrik on cardboard resulted in varroa being exposed to lower concentrations of
fluvalinate than with Apistan. Beekeepers found that they had to use increasingly more
concentrated Mavrik solutions until not even 100% Mavrik was giving good control. Worse
still, because Apistan also contains fluvalinate, Apistan was now also ineffective against
the resistant mites. Use of Mavrik to control varroa has also been implicated in findings of
fluvalinate residues in honey.

[sc-bee]

Sorry I mis-spoke I think it was co-ral powder. Same point however.....