supersedure cells

[charliesnike]

well this has not been an issue for me this year...yet. I have been saying that it is a common issue in many threads. it would seem inordinately common, for queens that are not really that old and should not be failing. so is it to be a breeder that's raising faulty product, all these beekeepers that don't know how to raise bees, what is the real issue. wow I know situations can vary from area to area, just seems all too common of a thing.

[Culley]

Not an issue I've had much experience of. I don't buy queens though.

Sometimes a hive will supersede or go queenless in early spring. Good time of year for it to happen.

[GSF]

I've only got two summers under my beekeeping belt. There's swarm cells, supersedure cells, and emergency cups. From what I'm hearing swarm cells are more desireable because it's more of a planned event, therefore more preparations on the bees part.

This last summer I made several splits, caught several swarms, and bought 4 packages. I had a big problem with the queens being replaced. I found a couple of them on the ground around the hives. I'm hoping as time passes the hives will have more things under control since there should be less disruption.

[Michael Bush]

>it would seem inordinately common, for queens that are not really that old and should not be failing.

I heard Nancy Ostiguy in a Kansas Honey Producer's meeting in 2004 say she thinks the average queen gets superseded three times a year now.

[OldMech]

>it would seem inordinately common, for queens that are not really that old and should not be failing.

I heard Nancy Ostiguy in a Kansas Honey Producer's meeting in 2004 say she thinks the average queen gets superseded three times a year now.

wow.. seriously? Did she give any reason or hypothesis for such a statement?
   I have package queens superseded almost as a gurantee, after that I have less problems with my queens..  Certainly less than three times a year.. I replaced two queens four years old this year. they are now in Nucs for the winter, and did quite well building up those nucs. I have several queens three years old, to BE four in the spring, most of the rest are all wintering their first year.
   Queens raised here were not superseded. Mike Haney's queensn (Ridgetop Apiaries) were not superseded. The queens in the nucs I bought were not superseded. The queens in the packages I bought were superseded, ALL but one of the ten I bought..
   I purchased ten packages to test their ability to overwinter, but that test is now somewhat adulterated because most have locally bred queens in them now..

   I'd be really interested in why she thinks, or her queens ARE superseding so often? Contaminants in the hive?

[Michael Bush]

>wow.. seriously? Did she give any reason or hypothesis for such a statement?

Her hypothesis was the contamination of the foundation and wax by fluvalinate, cumaphos and amitraz.

[Eric Bosworth]

>wow.. seriously? Did she give any reason or hypothesis for such a statement?

Her hypothesis was the contamination of the foundation and wax by fluvalinate, cumaphos and amitraz.

Simple solution... You probably heard of foundationless without using chemistry... Must be she hasn't... Or perhaps she is the better life through chemistry

[OldMech]

>wow.. seriously? Did she give any reason or hypothesis for such a statement?

Her hypothesis was the contamination of the foundation and wax by fluvalinate, cumaphos and amitraz.

   Ahh...  OK..   I don't use any of those things, and most of my frames are foundation-less..  I do occasionally bleach my frames, but thats the extent of chems..  Might be why I have not seen more supersedure...

[Michael Bush]

>Simple solution... You probably heard of foundationless without using chemistry... Must be she hasn't... Or perhaps she is the better life through chemistry

I'm sure she has heard of it by now.  But she's a scientist and is studying the problem, not trying to solve it personally...

[OldMech]

LOL

[Eric Bosworth]

But she's a scientist and is studying the problem, not trying to solve it personally...

Obviously... Does she actually have her own bees that she is trying to keep alive? Or perhaps trying to kill off... I do have to question the logic of somebody who would study the problem and make a diagnosis like that but not take the obvious step to fix it... It reminds me of something that happened last year when I was skiing. I am on the ski patrol and somebody came into the patrol room with cold feet... he took his boots off at the chairlift and walked to the patrol room from the chair in his socks. It was 9 degrees. After we warmed his feet up and he left my friend looked at me and said "Ya no... We can't fix stupid... We can diagnose it but we just can't fix it..."

[AR Beekeeper]

I would lean more toward the queens having virus infections.  Queen supersedure in packages can also be because of adult to larvae population imbalance.

[Michael Bush]

Dr. Ostiguy has a phd, yes.  She does have bees, at least at the college, and she is very involved and concerned about issues with the fast turnover of queens and the contamination in the comb, CCD etc.  I have the utmost respect for her.  Penn state is very involved in these issues.

[Eric Bosworth]

Dr. Ostiguy has a phd, yes.  She does have bees, at least at the college, and she is very involved and concerned about issues with the fast turnover of queens and the contamination in the comb, CCD etc.  I have the utmost respect for her.  Penn state is very involved in these issues.

If she has her Queens superseded on a monthly basis and she has a theory as to why then why isn't she trying the obvious test to her theory?
That said, perhaps I am just inexperienced but I am convinced that CCD is just a politically correct term for pesticides... Be it either outside the hive or inside the hive "treating" the bees.

[Eric Bosworth]

PhD = piled high and deep.

[GSF]

post hole diggers

[Michael Bush]

>If she has her Queens superseded on a monthly basis and she has a theory as to why then why isn't she trying the obvious test to her theory?

No, she did not say her queens were superseded on a monthly basis.  She said based on the data she had collected she believed the average queen in the US was being superseded three times a year.  She did not say anything about "her" queens.  Why all the antagonism towards someone you've never met?

[Eric Bosworth]

Because you made it sound like her Queens were being replaced regularly. Sorry I didn't have all the info. But that said it still seems she would push foundationless if she believes that chemical treatment/contamination is the cause.

[Michael Bush]

She wasn't pushing anything other than pointing out the accumulating contamination in the wax and warning that we need to change the direction beekeeping is taking in order to fix that.  I reported exactly what she said: "...thinks the average queen gets superseded three times a year now." which is not about her queens.  It's about "the average queen."  Interestingly she was interrupted by a question from the audience.  A man pointed out that all those chemicals didn't work anymore anyway, and he wanted to know what the new chemical was going to be so he could use that...  She was speechless for a minute...  He obviously didn't get it.

[Eric Bosworth]

Then I apologize. In that case I would really have to wonder about the guy asking the question...