mini nuc to reg. nuc transfer?

sterling · April 03, 2015, 08:20:58 PM

Lawrence Connor, Ph.D in his book Queen Rearing Essentials on pg.64 wrote "Keep the queen in the mating nuc for 21-28 days after cell addition so the queen is fully developed physiologically. This insures full pheromone production."

sc-bee · April 03, 2015, 09:38:42 PM

Quote from: sterling on April 03, 2015, 08:20:58 PM
Lawrence Connor, Ph.D in his book Queen Rearing Essentials on pg.64 wrote "Keep the queen in the mating nuc for 21-28 days after cell addition so the queen is fully developed physiologically. This insures full pheromone production."

After cell addition.... and you would add/move the queen cell on day 14, is this not correct? So 21-28 days after cell addition? Back up to 34-42 days. Did I do the math right?

Jim134 · April 03, 2015, 10:48:00 PM

sc-bee

So we are all on the same page use this calendar

http://www.thebeeyard.org/queen-rearing-calendar/

Remember this calendar take into consideration you are using 3 day old eggs to graft with.Now redo your math.

BEE HAPPY Jim134

sc-bee · April 04, 2015, 08:18:19 AM

I thought I understood the bee math maybe not

The comment was Larry Connor said 21-28 days after the addition . So I guess my question is addition of what... cell to the mating Nuc and what day does Dr. Connor recommend moving it? Day 8 after capped or I hear many say don't move till day 14 because you will damage the queen. I think it makes a difference in the math right? Or have I missed something?

Not in a position to be able to use the link at this time due to computer issues.

iddee · April 04, 2015, 09:47:12 AM

Now you can see why I started with the questions. Not very precise writings there. I know I don't have a clear picture, and doubt they did.

Jim134 · April 05, 2015, 12:04:29 AM

Quote from: sterling on April 03, 2015, 08:20:58 PM
Lawrence Connor, Ph.D in his book Queen Rearing Essentials on pg.64 wrote "Keep the queen in the mating nuc for 21-28 days after cell addition so the queen is fully developed physiologically. This insures full pheromone production."

28 days after the birth of Queen.
If you want to start with the egg to the finish 43 days.Dr Larry Connors suggest you move the cells on the 14th or 15th day. (A day or 2 before the queen's emerge on day16) I do realize the day the Queen gets born is the first day of her life so the total time from egg to adult queen is 43 days.

sc- bee you add 14 days and 28 days.
It should have been 15 days and 28 days

BEE HAPPY Jim 134

rookie2531 · April 05, 2015, 05:49:13 AM

Thanks for the link Jim.

CBT · April 05, 2015, 10:53:33 PM

Boy, I have learned a lot from this thread. Thanks for all the questions and answers.

little john · April 06, 2015, 04:29:31 AM

Quote from: CBT on April 05, 2015, 10:53:33 PM
Boy, I have learned a lot from this thread.

Wish I had ...

There are four possible scenarios I can see, each of which will disrupt the life of the queen to different degrees, so I reckon it's important to make distinctions between these scenarios when considering any data from research in this area:

1) Mated queen is moved - along with mating-nuc combs and bees from mating nuc into a larger nuc. Either by placing the larger nuc above the mating nuc, or using some kind of frame adapter.

2) Mated queen is removed from mating nuc and immediately placed in a larger nuc box - perhaps in a large introduction cage which permits some laying - with new (to her) combs and bees.

3) Mated queen is removed and placed into a mailing cage, dispatched immediately and subsequently introduced to a nucleus colony, such that laying is only interrupted for a few days.

4) Mated queen is removed and placed into a queen banking cage and held there for several weeks until sold.

As you can see, I've listed these in order of assumed severity of disruption to the normal life of the mated queen. Unless we know - unambiguously - in what manner the mated queen has been re-located, any data relating to this is (imo) fairly meaningless.

LJ

rookie2531 · January 07, 2016, 07:33:39 PM

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0ByC3uaCiy9xpLXZjX1hIWld6NUk/view?usp=docslist_api

Finally, this was exactly what I was trying to envision. Only took me 9 months to find. Page 2 has the clip that will enable, not only drawing the frames, but adding to full size boxes, once done mating her.

little john · January 07, 2016, 08:25:44 PM

For a more conventional file containing this info:
http://www.michiganbees.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/Mini-Nucs_20150130.pdf
LJ

superbee · January 08, 2016, 01:04:43 AM

That is a very informative bit of info. Thank you.

BeeMaster2 · January 08, 2016, 12:48:47 PM

I now have a new project for this winter. I will bee making 2 medium, 4 chamber mini nucs out of cypress for spring.
Jim

Michael Bush · January 09, 2016, 03:44:42 PM

>Lawrence Connor, Ph.D in his book Queen Rearing Essentials on pg.64 wrote "Keep the queen in the mating nuc for 21-28 days after cell addition so the queen is fully developed physiologically. This insures full pheromone production."

This is to allow the queen's ovarioles to completely develop.

http://www.apidologie.org/index.php?option=com_article&access=standard&Itemid=129&url=/articles/apido/pdf/2004/04/M4018.pdf

rookie2531 · January 09, 2016, 05:04:17 PM

Quote from: Michael Bush on January 09, 2016, 03:44:42 PM
>Lawrence Connor, Ph.D in his book Queen Rearing Essentials on pg.64 wrote "Keep the queen in the mating nuc for 21-28 days after cell addition so the queen is fully developed physiologically. This insures full pheromone production."

This is to allow the queen's ovarioles to completely develop.

http://www.apidologie.org/index.php?option=com_article&access=standard&Itemid=129&url=/articles/apido/pdf/2004/04/M4018.pdf

Very good info, but what I'm thinking, is not caging the queens ever for intro. But rather using less resources to get them mated and once I am sure she mated and laying. Add brood and nurse bees from a different hive and add her smaller frames with her on it to a 3-5 frame nuc. This way she doesn't stop laying and I don't have to worry about her colony having to protect too much space.

Jim134 · January 15, 2016, 04:10:16 PM

I see the British have a different idea.

Something you might like to consider.
If you made your own you might go this way with a normal frame size 1/3 so you could reuse the frames and bees in normal production hives or nucs and even in mini mating nucs

https://www.thorne.co.uk/queen/mating-hives?product_id=5717
https://www.thorne.co.uk/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=5714

BEE HAPPY Jim 134

rookie2531 · January 16, 2016, 06:20:39 AM

Jim, that's another good one. You have been holding out on me this whole time.☺

little john · January 16, 2016, 07:42:10 AM

Quote from: Jim 134 on January 15, 2016, 04:10:16 PM
I see the British have a different idea.
Something you might like to consider.

Barmy, or what ? Just wait until the bees have stuck some propolis onto that contraption - and then see if it folds out nicely ...
... and 7 GB pounds a pop - for those with deep pockets and no experience.

If you want mating-nuc frames, why not make your own ? This is a half-size frame along the same lines as used by Mike Palmer :

If you want them smaller, make them 'shallow'-deep; larger, then 'deep'-deep. Cost - nothing in materials. Just a little time ... and you should only need to make them once, so it's hardly a major drain on resources.

LJ

BeeMaster2 · January 16, 2016, 07:48:22 AM

Good point LJ. They will be glued up real good.
Jim

Jim134 · January 16, 2016, 09:40:46 AM

Here is a Mini Mating Nuc Walter T Kelley offers this was in the 2015 catalog. Something you might like to see. This is a medium frame : nuc with a frames put in the short way and a division board in the middle so you can have two end to end
Catalog number is 940

BEE HAPPY Jim 134 :)