Anyone plant exclusively for the bees and profit on a commercial scale?

[Smertrios]

First things first... I am 100% noob to bee keeping (I own no bees) but this is something I've on occasion thought about. As has happened a couple times in the past I started looking at real estate available day dreaming about growing nectar plants for honey production. See what happens is that I see the "north american nectar sources" on wiki and get excited thinking I could get some acreage and plant a field of Phacelia Tanacetifolia and get upto 1500 pounds of surplus honey an acre to sell! Large amount considering thats only a pinch over 29 square feet of surface area per pound of honey per year and could require more than 1 hive per acre just to get it all! Might require succession planting but still thats impressive and there is room to earn a living doing it if the honey is bought by the big honey buyers at $2+ a pound. I have read that phacelia honey does have a taste to it... not bad but a specific and noticable taste.

I do realize that 1500 is probably unattainable but half that would be impressive!

[OldMech]

   I am not sure I qualify as commercial scale....  But I plant 12ish acres for the bees, and its planted in forage that I can cut and bale each fall for the horses and cows..   My planting list;

Birdsfoot Trefoil
Sainfoin
Hubam Clover
Crimson Clover
Borage
Smattering of buckwheat..


   Make sure the buckwheat is 5% or less as it can cause sun sensitivity problems if fed as hay.  I have noticed a full super difference in production.. was it the flow that year or what I planted?  Only time will tell.   
   I keep 20 hives at home where the field is planted, I keep ten hives 2 miles away to the west, ten hives two miles away to the east, ten hives two and a half miles to the south, 6 hives 3.5 miles to the north..  I have other outyards but these are the ones that may be capable of reaching the planting..   It also benefits in covering the entire radius and preventing commercial sprayers from spraying anything harmful near the center.

[mikecva]

There are several sites that list flowers for honey bees one is:
fafard.com/terrific-flowers-for-honey-bees/

Play close attention though to the area and  soil that is needed as not all grow well.  -Mike

[Smertrios]

OldMech - About 35 pounds to a super multiplied by 20 hives then divided by 12 is an average of 58.3 extra pounds per acre. Am I wrong to assume that hives so far away wont get much surplus built up from that 12 acres? Be interesting if you planted an acre of phacelia tanacetafolia and ended up with another +1 super for those 20 hives. Or even +1/2 super for your 20 hives assuming your other hives were making the trip and getting an equal share.

[biggraham610]

where did you come up with the 1500 lbs an acre of honey produced by this flower number?

[Smertrios]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_American_nectar_sources_for_honey_bees

[OldMech]

The hives further away have still shown a noticeable increase, and as far as I can tell flying two to three miles is not a hinderance to the bees..  When the natural nectar sources begin to run out, these fields are buzzing with bees.
   The purpose of what I planted is that I can make use of it as hay, and in effect sell it, use it for my own animals, or both.  Money was the considering factor.   I do not believe purple tansy can be used as forage for critters, but it would make a beautiful field.. However.. what is the bloom time?  If you plant a single plant, that has a singular bloom period, I would be wondering if the bloom of the Tansy would coincide with other natural blooms and make it less desireable?  If it has a mid summer bloom time it might indeed be beneficial, coming between spring and fall flows. But, is a singular crop that is only beneficial to your bees worth the time effort and money to plant?    Can you cut it for additional bloom time? DO you have the equipment to cut it? Will ti be worth the fuel spent to cut it?   
   A lot to think about...  and all of these things went into the consideration for what I planted..  I can make my money back on it. Money for the seed, for fuel, for the equipment etc...

[Smertrios]

Informative document about Phacelia Tanacetifolia...
http://seriousaboutcamo.typepad.com/files/phacelia_farmer_version.pdf

In essence there are some "individuals" that are sensitive to it and break out in a rash similar to poison ivy or oak and I have to assume that if your an animal and eating this its especially bad. Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phacelia

[Maggiesdad]

I planted 100 Tilia Americana this spring... check back in about 15 years and I'll tell you how they are doing. 

[Joe D]

I am not a commercial bk, but the ones I know usually find people that will let them put hives on their property.   They try to have near a swamp, or other places where there are lots of wild trees and bushes for the bees to work.  There will be red bud, red maple, sumac, privet  hedge, ti ti trees, and popcorn (Chinese tallow) trees.  One Bk  has told me he can make a honey crop off popcorn trees.  He normally puts up 150 to 200, 55 gallon drums of honey per year.
I do have 25 acres of crimson clover, rye, and hairy vetch.  Other grasses in the summer and fall.  My bees don't work the hairy vetch but mason bees do, they do hit the crimson clover though. 
It also depends on where you live, to when and if plants will grow there.  Trying to plant for a commercial bee operation would take a lot of planting.  Also it will depend on the weather a lot, to cold, to hot, to much rain or not enough, that's what farmers deal with all the time.  I have a area with Laurel cherry trees three out of the last four years just as they start blooming it will rain and that's the end of them for that year.  Good luck to you

Joe

[LuciwhitAR]

Here is the link to a honey bee forage map: http://honeybeenet.gsfc.nasa.gov/Honeybees/Forage.htm

[Smertrios]

Phacelia Tanacetifolia is susposeto be something of a desert plant. I have seen some desert acreages in Arizona as low as $6,000 for 40 acres and have to try and find out if it could work by producing a healthy profit.

Here is another document saying that 2.8" of rain a year is not enough.
http://esrp.csustan.edu/vfpc/profiles/PHTA.pdf

The desert gets 7" which is 1.4" less than what they say is enough for this plant. The land in more south easterly states I have seen for sale is nearly 10x that per acre and thats the "cheap stuff". The desert land would need water brought in so that the bees can cool the hives. Wish I knew for sure what I would be getting myself into and if a healthy profit is possible. (the land in the south east has wild pigs and bears...)

I would bet the south easterly land which gets alot more rain would be able to support succession planting more easily. Bet it also supports more weeds...

[OldMech]

   If that was your interest, and you wanted to live there, make sure your land is accessible by TRUCK and offer to winter pollination hives for the three months or so they need before they go back to almonds. The rest of the year you could keep your own hives there foraging..  Of course, when you have two thousand hives during that three months they would need fed....

[sc-bee]

I am afraid if it were that easy.... plant it and they will produce, more folks would be doing it. If I were going to buy land hoping for a beekeeping operation it would be in an area of natural forage and not banking on what I planted. If serious take time and make a visit to a fairly large beekeeping operation and see what is involved. Forget what wiki tells you IMHO.

Mech your planting results are interesting because I have always heard you would literally have to plant a large acreage to actually see a difference in yield. No I don't remember a figure just that a small planting in negligible and more of a feel good thing. Of course if hundreds of folks do the feel good thing. It will be interesting to watch and see how you feel your yield is affected..

Would love to hear some others weigh in on this...

[biggraham610]

I keep acres of stuff planted for the game at my place, tried to upload a photo I took of one of my white clover fields yesterday but couldn't get it to load. I probably have a total of 6-8 acres in clover, sanofoin, alfalfa, and plant 5-6 acres a year in annuals. I also have a ton of trees and shrubs we planted as borders while creating our reserve. The bees love the hawthorns, false indigo bush, chestnuts. I know that I have a much larger yield at this yard than my home yard, which is amongst mostly woods and hayfields, some agriculture. I have tried buckwheat and may again this year, have had mixed results with growth as well as bee interest. Planted 1.5 acres of black eyed peas yesterday, have no idea if the bees like those blossoms for pollen or nectar, but the deer like it, and I had to get something in the ground. G 

[OldMech]

According to Larry Connor, 6 acres WELL planted will support 20 hives. 20 is what I normally keep at my house, so not knowing what "well planted" meant exactly I planted twice that much... 

[sc-bee]

  Well I got some dirt I need to plow....

[Eric Bosworth]

6 acres? I wonder how much of my land is well plantable. I have a few fields but they have very poor drainage and working them isn't easy. The weather has to be right and that rarely happens. I do have quiet a bit of wild clover. Most of my land is woods. Lots of tree pollen... Looking at my hives the past few days they must have a nectar source somewhere.

[OldMech]

   I have to assume that "well planted" meant a variety of plants that bloomed at different times during the spring summer and fall, in order to provide for the bees the entire time..
   Bees are quite good hoarders though, which is the reason we like them so much..  If you can plant something that will allow them to "stock up" I am not so sure that planting a continual bloom is completely necessary...   If you have an acre or three, maybe planting something that blooms when most of the local plants dont would be better?

[Smertrios]

When planting did you use a mycorrhizal fungus? Would that interfear with the rhizobium of clovers? The myco being sold on ebay isn't cheap! Would it be easy to get alot of myco innoculant by sterilizing some water, adding sugar, adding some myco , adding aeration and then waiting for it to grow? Using packaged myco as a starter and culturing your own might be an inexpensive way to innoculate an acreage. When or rather if I get some land I will likely buy several brands of myco and test them to see which does best with the dirt I have available and then test some cultured myco.