Found A Swarm Cell...

[mtnb]

Inspected yesterday and found a swarm cell. I tried to get a picture but as you can see in the link, none turned out really well. It doesn't look like it's been capped and opened yet though, right? What, if anything, should I do about it? These are from a nuc, mid-may. They have tons of larvae and capped bees. I was amazed at the amount actually. Maybe they're getting ready for something?  hopefully lol They have both outside frames in the deep packed with honey and the rest is pretty full. I have another medium on top of that which also has lots of capped brood, larvae, and I'm sure eggs, I just can't see them.  They've put a honey band on the top of these frames so I guess these are their brood boxes. They also have outside frames with honey. There's another medium on top where they have about 3 frames of honey started. All foundationless 8 frames except for the 5 nuc frames in the deep. Today I'm wondering if they have enough room in the brood area. Should I give them some empties in there? I keep reading about being honey bound but I really don't quite understand how to recognize that. Maybe I'm honey bound? What do I do about the swarm cell?

I've included a picture of a medium foundationless frame hanging in my deep which I think they've done a beautiful job on. 

http://s284.photobucket.com/user/MTBeeGirl/library/Swarm%20Cell%20For%20Sure?sort=3&page=1

[indypartridge]

Nothing to be concerned about. Looks like a queen cup. Bees often build these, no one really knows why (practice?). If they were planning on swarming, you'd have multiple queen cells (6 to 12).

[mtnb]

Ok, that's what I was wondering. Everything I've read points to a problem once you have at least several. Thank you!

[sc-bee]

I would not go out on a limb and call that a cup from what I see IMHO. Check to see if there is an egg or larvae in it. Lots of brood on that frame and no space. And I don't like to make calls by cell placement but it is at the bottom. Most important is does she needs room in the brood chamber. That should not be hard to accomplish with mostly mediums. Move some honey up and empty frames with space down between the brood. Open up the brood chamber if it is not open. If you have a honey dome on top of the brood it is viewed as a ceiling. Have they started back filling the brood chamber.

Honey bound is when the emerged cells in the brood chamber have been filled with nectar and the queen has no where to lay. Just inspect and if no where for the queen to lay and honey where brood should be... honey bound...

[Michael Bush]

It may or may not be a queen cell.  Look for a larvae.  Without a larvae it's just meaningless artifact.  There is never ONE swarm cell.  A dozen maybe.  Two dozen, probably.  Three dozen possibly.  But not one.

http://www.bushfarms.com/beesswarmcontrol.htm#supersedure

[mtnb]

Ok. That makes sense. Thanks for the link Mr. Bush. I really tried to see inside but with the sun and the shadows, my dark veil, no matter how I held it, I could. not. see inside. I don't think it was just a cup. It was elongated and had several very small cells on the sides. Many of the frames look like that. I think they are too crowded. The second box has a honey cap and also not much room ...so would you all suggest I nadir another medium one in between those two, pull some frames up from the deep, and add empties into the brood? If I don't add another box in between, there wouldn't be room to manipulate the brood frames... I think that's probably what I need to do. Soon, right?

[sc-bee]

And I agree not just one cell is a swarm cell. But I was thinking probably more there in early stages or more on the way..... really looks elongated to me and not a cup...

[GSF]

Checkerboard some of them as well. That's a good looking bunch of bees.

[Michael Bush]

>no matter how I held it, I could. not. see inside.

Take the corner of your hive tool and peel it open just a little.  If you don't damage the larvae (and if there is one) they will repair it.

[mtnb]

Checkerboard some of them as well. That's a good looking bunch of bees.

Will do, GSF. Thank you!  They've really taken off since I stopped feeding them! They've turned into a picture perfect hive. 

I'm going in to make the changes and try to take a peek and maybe open it a little like Mr. Bush said. Hopefully I can see something. I haven't yet been able to make out any eggs though so I'm not hopeful. I think I need an even stronger set of reading glasses. May have to take my veil off if I'm brave enough. May get my first sting today. lol Wish me luck.

[mtnb]

Ok, upon 2nd look, they were definitely running out of space. I checkerboarded some empties in and moved things around. I did cut off the bottom of that medium frame that was in my deep. Took the comb and rubberbanded it into a frame. Hope that was ok to do. ? I guess it was drone brood but it also had smaller cells that were capped also. They seem to like it, they built it, so I put it into the new blue box that I nadired under the honey capped box. They were also building very quickly since just a few days ago so I decided to add even another super on the top for honey. (the yellow) I can't believe how big they're getting! But I definitely feel like they have enough room now.

I was able to look into the elongated cell today. The sun must have been just right and I held it at just the right angle and it turns out it is completely dry and empty. Guess a "just in case". yay

Thanks for all your guy's help and making me realize even that they were running out of room!! ((()))
http://s284.photobucket.com/user/MTBeeGirl/library/Swarm%20Cell%20For%20Sure/Checkerboarding%20and%20swarm%20cell%20check?sort=3&page=1

[sc-bee]

Nice job on rubber banning the comb

[mtnb]

Thank you! It was tricky but I did it. 

I have one more question in regards to the honey band. Do they feed that to the brood and get rid of it before winter so the Queen can also move up? How does that all work out?

[cao]

Do they feed that to the brood and get rid of it before winter so the Queen can also move up? How does that all work out?

Typically at the start of winter the bees will cluster near the brood nest.  The honey band is near the top of the cluster.  As winter progresses they consume the honey and move up as they do it.  So the brood nest with honey band just moves up.  Hopefully they don't reach the top before winter is over.  

[mtnb]

They feed it to her right? So they move up ahead of her and basically eat and feed and open the path for her to get through? What I'm really wondering is how I'm going to configure the frames optimally for them for the winter. Is there something/someone I could read that specifically gives information about frame placement for overwintering?

[iddee]

Frame placement for the winter is best done by the bees. Just don't put empty frames above after the flow stops. They will arrange it much better than us. They have been doing it for 10,000 years longer them we have.   

[mtnb]

lol yes but I don't need to make sure they have honey frames on the outside or anything like that? I thought I read something about arranging frames for the winter, although I haven't come across it often that's why I was wondering I guess. So tell me how they move in their cluster please. Are they all the bees clustered over several frames? If they move up, how do they reach the honey on the outside? I can see on my foundationless frames, they've left holes on some to go through but the nuc frames are plastic foundation. How do they get around that? Do they string out like a band? I just don't know how to picture the whole winter movement.

[iddee]

Look at the Sherwin Williams paint logo. The globe is the brood nest and the red paint is the honey. As more honey comes in, the nest will be pushed down. As they eat through the honey, the nest will rise.


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[KeyLargoBees]

LOL Idee

[GSF]

Very good analogy