Hive Box Size

flyboy · August 14, 2015, 05:13:12 PM

A friend has changed to using dadents only. He cites; lighter than deeps, easier to move around and only one size fits all. I am thinking of doing same.

Anybody have any reasons for or agin?

I make my own gear so I can see it is easier just using one for everything

mikecva · August 14, 2015, 05:30:53 PM

I have purchased boxes and supers from the same source since I began. I was given about 30 boxes from another supplier and they are all the same size (but no guarantee of this always). Both of the suppliers I purchase wooden supplies from have three sizes (deeps, mediums and shallows) in either 8 or 10 frame sizes.
I use all medium 10 frame boxes due to the weight (bad back not conducive to full size boxes) for my brood boxes and my supers (all supers are painted white). I do this for interchangeability of frames but the important thing is do what you are conformable with. Have fun. -Mike

OldMech · August 14, 2015, 11:53:54 PM

Standard mediums at 6 5/8 or even 8 frame mediums are more common if you ever wish to try to sell your equipment. Going with all one frame size is excellent thinking.

biggraham610 · August 15, 2015, 01:55:00 PM

I agree. It should be mentioned that different suppliers sometimes have different opinions of where bee space is relegated. I use all M.L. which keeps beespace above the frames, i have some boxes from a different manufacturer that the beespace is calculated on the bottom, I can only use these on the top of a hive. I build my boxes now, but my measurements follow M>L> measurements in case I have to order some. I too, am in the middle of transitioning to all mediums for the reasons listed, interchangeability being tops on the list. G

texanbelchers · August 15, 2015, 02:19:03 PM

I'd get a router after those boxes that don't match.

Michael Bush · August 15, 2015, 04:41:45 PM

>A friend has changed to using dadents only.

11 5/8" boxes with 11 1/4" frames and 12 frames to a box would be a Dadant.

>He cites; lighter than deeps, easier to move around and only one size fits all.

It would certainly not be lighter. Eight frame mediums would be lighter and one size fits all... that's what I run.

ldeano · August 17, 2015, 02:05:49 PM

lol I was reading the post trying to figure out what a dadent was. I ordered my hive parts from Dadant.com but did not know there was actually a box called a dadant.

Blacksheep · August 17, 2015, 08:08:12 PM

In Tennessee by law if you sell honey must be Lang's !

sc-bee · August 17, 2015, 09:08:39 PM

Quote from: Blacksheep on August 17, 2015, 08:08:12 PM
In Tennessee by law if you sell honey must be Lang's !

It is a Lang ! Langs come in different sizes

Lang is the type hive not size of box....Deeps, mediums, shallows, Dadants, Westerns, Iiilnois etc (sure I missed plenty historical terms) are all just terms for box size...

Eric Bosworth · August 17, 2015, 09:16:12 PM

Blacksheep what possible reasoning is behind a regulation like that besides giving a government employee something to do?

Eric Bosworth · August 17, 2015, 09:18:15 PM

SC a top bar hive is not a lang.

sc-bee · August 17, 2015, 09:23:14 PM

Quote from: Eric Bosworth on August 17, 2015, 09:18:15 PM
SC a top bar hive is not a lang.

Did not say it was, but you don't use mediums as the OP was asking or different size boxes on a top bar do you

Edited.... Ok, blacksheep is saying you can not sell honey in Tn from a top bar

or either you just bailed him out

chux · August 18, 2015, 08:34:31 AM

Flyboy, are the boxes you are calling dadents, smaller than a deep Langstroth box? Are you talking about Illinois supers, also known in many places as mediums? Many folks opt for using all mediums. I have been thinking that as I get older, I may wish I was running all medium 8-frame equipment, as some other wise posters do on here.

You asked for pros and cons. A pro for running smaller boxes, all in one size, would be weight and interchangability.
Cons...There are some interesting conversations to be found where folks talk about the winter clustering of bees. Many feel that the bees will cluster better and go through winter better with a deep frame size. Others disagree, or don't know. I'd research that if I lived farther north where the winters could be longer or harsher. Also, smaller boxes means more boxes. If you want the same number of bees and the same harvest of honey as a larger box, you will have to build more of the smaller boxes. You will need to purchase more frames. I believe 3 medium ten frame boxes would be close to the same size as 2 deeps. But you lose a little bit more room in the mediums, due to frame spacing between boxes. How many 8 frame mediums would it take to be roughly equivalent to two 10 frame deeps? I guess it would still be three, but you would be lacking some space. Doesn't matter if you can't lift those bigger boxes, though.

In the end, I think the pros and cons kinda offset each other, and it depends on what particular benefits you are looking for. The biggest concern for me, if I were a northern beek, would be the impact of the smaller frame size on the winter cluster. Does it matter? I'd research that a lot more before making a decision.

flyboy · August 18, 2015, 11:03:52 AM

Firstly I had thought that Dadents were smaller, maybe the size of mediums. I see that I was mistaken and contacted the guy who I was talking to re: what he actually said and meant. Obviously there was a disconnect between what he said and what I heard. LOL

Thanks for the info chux, makes a lot of sense. I live on Vancouver Island which is a large island on the west (wet) coast of Canada, so we actually have a mild wet winter. We get very little or no snow. Most winter days are 5 degrees C or 41 degrees F. My bees were flying this year Feb 1 although it was an early year this year.

Michael Bush · August 18, 2015, 11:32:50 AM

>In Tennessee by law if you sell honey must be Lang's !

I've yet to see or hear of an inspector who interprets "Langstroth" in the law as anything other than "having movable combs". People have TBHs all over the country including Tennessee.

KeyLargoBees · August 18, 2015, 01:23:19 PM

Not sure how that would be enforceable anyway....not like they can test the Honey to see whether it came from a Langstroth or someone who happened to pull comb from a cutout....although I am pretty sure that is the gist of that sort of legislation since you cant tell what kind of debris might be in honey cut out from a structure or other non natural environment.

hjon71 · August 19, 2015, 09:47:43 PM

Quote from: Blacksheep on August 17, 2015, 08:08:12 PM
In Tennessee by law if you sell honey must be Lang's !

Not true.

Quote from: Blacksheep on August 17, 2015, 08:08:12 PM
In Tennessee by law if you sell honey must be Lang's !

Not true.
HISTORY: Acts 1995, ch. 402, ? 6; T.C.A. ? 44-15-205. 44-15-106. Moveable frames.
Each beekeeper is required to provide moveable frames in all hives used by that beekeeper to contain bees, so that any such frame can be removed from the hive and inspected for any regulated diseases and pests. Any beekeeper having a colony of bees living in any beehive or other container that does not have moveable frames may be ordered by the state apiarist to transfer the bees into a hive with moveable frames within a specified period of time. If the beekeeper does not make the transfer within the specified time period, the state apiarist shall have the authority to confiscate the bees and hive or hives.

Sent from my LG-E970 using Tapatalk

chux · August 20, 2015, 09:38:55 AM

Quote from: hjon71 on August 19, 2015, 09:47:43 PM
Quote from: Blacksheep on August 17, 2015, 08:08:12 PM
In Tennessee by law if you sell honey must be Lang's !
Not true.

Quote from: Blacksheep on August 17, 2015, 08:08:12 PM
In Tennessee by law if you sell honey must be Lang's !
Not true.
HISTORY: Acts 1995, ch. 402, ? 6; T.C.A. ? 44-15-205. 44-15-106. Moveable frames.
Each beekeeper is required to provide moveable frames in all hives used by that beekeeper to contain bees, so that any such frame can be removed from the hive and inspected for any regulated diseases and pests. Any beekeeper having a colony of bees living in any beehive or other container that does not have moveable frames may be ordered by the state apiarist to transfer the bees into a hive with moveable frames within a specified period of time. If the beekeeper does not make the transfer within the specified time period, the state apiarist shall have the authority to confiscate the bees and hive or hives.

So now we need a definition for "frames." What is a "frame," according to the state? The word implies four sides, surrounding comb. A top-bar hive is said to have "top bars," and not to have "frames." Perhaps a better word would be "comb." The hive must have movable/inspectable combs. This is where regulation can interfere with freedom in our country. A one-size fits all approach. Even on the state level, we can mess it up.

Eric Bosworth · August 20, 2015, 01:30:53 PM

Quote from: chux on August 20, 2015, 09:38:55 AM
So now we need a definition for "frames." What is a "frame," according to the state? The word implies four sides, surrounding comb. A top-bar hive is said to have "top bars," and not to have "frames." Perhaps a better word would be "comb." The hive must have movable/inspectable combs. This is where regulation can interfere with freedom in our country. A one-size fits all approach. Even on the state level, we can mess it up.

That says it all...

little john · August 20, 2015, 07:37:50 PM

Quote from: chux on August 20, 2015, 09:38:55 AM
So now we need a definition for "frames." What is a "frame," according to the state? The word implies four sides, surrounding comb.

If you look up the etymology of the word 'frame', you'll discover that the meaning you refer to - that of an enclosing border - dates only from the 17th century.

The word is generally considered to have originated from the Old English 'fremman', meaning "to help forward, or to promote", and the Old Norse 'frami', meaning "advancement".

In the early 13th century, the word was synonymous with "profit, benefit, advancement", and by the middle of that century "a structure composed according to a plan".

A 'frame' may therefore be considered as any entity upon which a further structure is built, for it's advancement. Hence words such as 'main-frame, frame-work, bicycle-frame, timber-framed housing' etc., as well as the term 'frame' applying to the human skeleton - which of course is located on the inside of a body (at least mine is ...), and does not form a border surrounding the outside of that body.

Thus - as strange as it may sound - it could be argued that a Top Bar be considered as a 'frame' in law, as it fulfills the above criteria.

However, it would be wise to check the relevant legislation, within which specific or technical terms ought to be precisely defined, in order to avoid those subtle ambiguities which provide such rich pickings for members of the legal profession ....

LJ