Cypress pine boxes and cleats

Dave86 · August 17, 2015, 08:05:36 PM

Hi all

After much phoning sawmills and debating with my wife I have picked up 100 lineal metres of 250x25 cypress boards. I have started cutting it into 8 and 5 frame boxes. There is a little bit of weight difference but nothing I cannot handle.

I have also purchased a jet thicknesser to bring it down from the 25mm to 22mm, quite an easy process when you take your time and the finished product is unreal, the cypress is A grade and almost too good to make hives out of.

From here, with the supplier stating that obtaining the 250mm boards is hard in his area (just west of Cecil Plains in QLD) we have decided that the next order will be a 150mm and a 125mm board tongue and groove joined with a single dressed side for accurate joining. I will then be using a table saw the trim the joined boards to size and using the offcut as a handle on the boxes.

All the timber is relatively green so the joining will be done ASAP to allow the join to shrink together and become weather proof, with an average of 3% shrinkage on cypress this should work well. I am also thinking of using tightbond 3 glue at the joining stage to ensure it wont come apart.

At the current pricing I can make boxes for the following prices, this isn't including my time for cutting, thicknessing and rebating yet as I haven't worked out how much time that takes.

5 frame $10.50aud
8 frame $11.90aud
10 frame $12.60aud

I think by the time I have done all of the above to assembly stage a 8 frame box will cost between $15 and $17 a box, saving about $5aud a box on current hoop pine boxes at my local supplier. Aside from any disease issues I might face I would expect once painted or oiled(not sure which yet) to get at least 10-15 years or more from these boxes. With timber prices on the move upwards and the cost of commercial RTA gear also going up I see this as a real opportunity to save a few $$$.

The supplier has made it clear that even with all the extra work for them to plane and tongue and groove join that the wholesale price will be close to the $7/m mark and marginally cheaper if I order 3-400 l/m at a time, which will be the plan in the future as we are looking at commercial expansion over the next 2-3 years.

Dave

Eric Bosworth · August 17, 2015, 09:22:22 PM

Is that including frames?

Dave86 · August 17, 2015, 09:31:42 PM

Quote from: Eric Bosworth on August 17, 2015, 09:22:22 PM
Is that including frames?

No mate, frames here are $1.10 each above the mentioned costs

poited · August 18, 2015, 03:39:03 AM

Good work dave. I have been farting around with plywood and it does the job. So you think you would sell the boxes RTA for $17? If so let me know as I would be very keen in getting some off you. Failing that I could be interested in buying some timber through you. Why bring the thickness down to 22mm? Better thermal properties if you leave them thicker, or is it a weight issue?
Chris

Dave86 · August 20, 2015, 03:54:46 AM

Quote from: poited on August 18, 2015, 03:39:03 AM
Good work dave. I have been farting around with plywood and it does the job. So you think you would sell the boxes RTA for $17? If so let me know as I would be very keen in getting some off you. Failing that I could be interested in buying some timber through you. Why bring the thickness down to 22mm? Better thermal properties if you leave them thicker, or is it a weight issue?
Chris

Hi Chris

ill send you a pm

Dave

Dave86 · August 20, 2015, 05:09:33 AM

Some pics of the progress so far

SB-Russ · August 20, 2015, 07:30:56 AM

That's some nice looking timber. I used to turn pens before I started reacting too much to the CA glue. That'd make some nice ones I reckon.

kalium · August 21, 2015, 12:03:27 AM

Have you thought about trying to avoid painting and oiling all together? It would be a big time saver.

Looking at the data sheets on cypress pine, I would think you could get away with it.

Dave86 · August 21, 2015, 01:27:36 AM

Quote from: kalium on August 21, 2015, 12:03:27 AM
Have you thought about trying to avoid painting and oiling all together? It would be a big time saver.

Looking at the data sheets on cypress pine, I would think you could get away with it.

Had this very discussion with a woodworking mate of mine.

Spoke about blends of oil like lanolin and linseed. Plus some other.

Wombat2 · August 22, 2015, 07:48:34 PM

what about bees wax and olive oil?

Oldbeavo · August 25, 2015, 06:03:46 PM

Hot dipped in 50/50 bees wax and linseed oil will preserve the wood for many years. have seen boxes not toughed for 20+ years and still going.
The hot dipping at around 160c for a min of 6 minutes will boil the moisture out of the wood a when you take it out the hot air in the wood cools and sucks the wax into the wood.
We hot dip with parrafin and microcrystaline wax the same, then 2 coats of paving paint while the box is hot, 6+min in the wax and two coats in the next 6+ min, all done in about 12 or so minutes.
Must use heat rated glue such as Titebond lll if you hot dip.

Michael Bush · August 26, 2015, 08:44:11 AM

Buy some rosin. 2:1 beeswax to rosin is better in my opinion. 1:1 beeswax to rosin is ok. Not sticky or greasy...

kalium · August 26, 2015, 10:44:08 AM

Hang on though, why would we go to all that effort and cost if the timber is going to last 15 years without a lick of anything on it?
Surely that's one of the big appeals of using cypress pine.

Michael Bush · August 26, 2015, 10:52:32 AM

> ...why would we go to all that effort and cost if the timber is going to last 15 years without a lick of anything on it?

I wouldn't, if I believed that... but then pine untreated might last 15 years also...

Dave86 · August 27, 2015, 03:25:18 AM

I think im going to try some form of oil, masters sell exterior decking oil for $20 for 4l, going to trial it and see how it goes.

The timber grain is really nice and my wife thinks its too good to simply paint, ill keep the peace with the minister of war and finance and try oil.

Dave86 · August 27, 2015, 03:27:57 AM

heres the boxes being assembled, I glued with titebond 2 and 40mm 8g screws

Dave86 · August 27, 2015, 03:30:43 AM

Quote from: kalium on August 26, 2015, 10:44:08 AM
Hang on though, why would we go to all that effort and cost if the timber is going to last 15 years without a lick of anything on it?
Surely that's one of the big appeals of using cypress pine.

as it was only cut within 3 months of assembly its still green, im assembling ASAP as to stop splitting of the board and will definitely be oiling to stop the split more then anything.

Average about 2.5-3kg heavier then a hoop box but im ok with that.

DAM79 · August 27, 2015, 07:53:12 AM

Those boxes look great,nice job.

Oldbeavo · September 02, 2015, 07:42:47 PM

The oil or presserving coat is effective but the hot dipping removes alot of moisture from the timber. It is the moisture that causes timber to rot.
For a few boxes, what you use does not cost alot I guess, but parrafin and microcrystalline is relatively cheap but bees wax (whic you already have) plus linseed is also cheap.
Also, which way you use the timber to make the box will influence the life of it. You need to build it inside of tree on outside of the box.

max2 · September 27, 2015, 01:11:08 PM

nice boxes. Would you mind to PM me and tell me the name of the saw mill?

m