Why did the bees die after swarm extraction?

[omnimirage]

Recently I went and captured a swarm. During the extraction process, a fair amount of dirt, leaves and twigs fell into the box. I moved the bees into a clean box, and tipped them all out of the messy one. Pecuilarly, they weren't eager to move into the new hive. I thought the bees were supposed to all follow after their queen, but instead, they gathered into clusters where ever they happened to be placed. There were about five clusters of bees, all piled on each other.

I tried to retrieve my cloth which I used in the extraction, and there were numerous bees on it that were particularly passive and immobile. I eventually thought that perhaps they needed honey for some energy, so I gathered half a dozen jar lids and filled them with honey, and put it near the bee clusters. Wanting to motivate them to move under shelter, I got a branch and put a tarp over it, and placed most of the honey underneath. They ate the honey fairly fast, but many bees stayed on top of the tarp and were rained on. I also poured honey into their hive, to encourage them to go into it, which was unsuccessful. Realising that the bees weren't going to move, I picked up the bees that I could and put them in the hive, and did my best to provide shelter for the less mobile ones. A few days later, many of the bees died, including all the bees in the old box with the dirt.

I don't know why they died. I think I must have done something wrong, but I'm really not sure what. I estimate I've lost 60% of the bees. Any idea on why this happened? Should have I provided the bees with sugar/honey as soon as I collected them? Should have I left them in the box with all the dirt in it? Could it be that the queen died, which is the reason the bees didn't follow after her?

[GSF]

Is it cold where you're at? Did you ask the home owners or who ever if they sprayed them? I went to a swarm once and the 'maintenance man" had sprayed a whole can of stuff on them. That may have happened to you. It could have taken a few hours to take full effect.

If the bees didn't have any food or didn't have any entrance/exit in the box then they starved out. You used the word swarm and also the word extraction which are two different approaches. Please clarify. btw, welcome to Beemaster. Please feel free to ask as many questions as you'd like. Most questions are location specific so it will help a great deal if you put your general location in your profile.

[omnimirage]

I live in Australia. It was moderately cold on the days I was working with them; it's been warming up for spring.

I'm fairly sure no one sprayed them, I'll have to keep that in mind though. They died half a week after I collected them.

I gave the bees inside the box a jar lid full of honey. They ate it fairly fast, and died the day after.

I didn't realise there was a difference between the two. I uh, "collected", a wild bee swarm that had landed on a lemon tree.

Added my location, ty :)

[omnimirage]

Though, maybe the bees were sprayed before they arrived at the lemon tree? Maybe that's why they swarmed in the first place?

[GSF]

A couple of possibilities as well. Good luck with them. There's a couple of folks on here from down under.

[chux]

Sounds like they had been sprayed.

[rwlaw]

Below 7?10 ?C (45?50 ?F) bees are immobile, and above 38 ?C (100 ?F) their activity slows. Honey bees can tolerate temperatures up to 50 ?C (122 ?F) for short periods.
I had to look it up but, you mentioned moderatly cold, it's possible they could've been comatose with the cold. It doesn't take too long for em to act sluggish when the cluster get disturbed and they get separated from the others.

[Kathyp]

I usually feed when I collect a swarm.  I am curious that they swarmed in the cold.  It does sound like they were hungry.   Yes, you may have lost the queen, and you could have left them in the hive even with the dirt.  They'll clean the dirt and leaves out or you can get it later.

You may have done nothing wrong.  As others pointed out, they may have been sprayed earlier.  since they were out of the hive and it was cold, they may have been driven out by spraying.

[chux]

Just a side thought in relation to multiple "clumps" of bees, when you thought they would cluster around the queen...Sometimes there are multiple queens in a swarm. I have seen three in one swarm. I have heard of others seeing 5 or more. I doubt this is what you saw, given the entire situation, but just wanted to put it out there for future reference.

[omnimirage]

It would have been about 15C when it was moderately cold. I also was wondering if that was why they weren't moving around much. I forgot to mention that many were flying around and being active, alongside the inactive bees. When I collected the swarm, I noticed that the bees were walking into the box, which was an indication that the queen was in there. Very interesting about multiple queens.

The bees are slowing drawing comb and filling it with honey. I saw no queen activity, though the comb is probably too undeveloped for her to lay eggs in it. I went to my other hives to find some eggs to give to the hive, in case the queen died, and after an hour I couldn't find any eggs, only sealed brood and larvae. I can go to another site to check, but my experience was quite disheartening and I'm wondering if it's worth it. I read that the eggs need to be less than three days old for them to make a queen out of it. Many bees were flying around a few days after catching the hive. They seemed more disorganised than they usually are; they flew around in circles and climbed up the walls, didn't seem to venture out much.

[chux]

>>>It would have been about 15C when it was moderately cold.
That is warm enough for them to fly, but still a bit cool. I wonder if the bees on the outside of the cluster got too cold, and slowed, while the bees on the inside were warmer, and so able to fly. I'm not sure on the temp. threshold.

>>>The bees are slowing drawing comb and filling it with honey. I saw no queen activity, though the comb is probably too undeveloped for her to lay eggs in it.
You put them in a hive with frames of foundation? They don't have to draw out much at all before the queen will begin laying in them. They can actually build out cells around the egg if she lays it before they get it fully drawn. I have put swarms in boxes with foundationless frames. Within 2 days they have drawn out enough comb for the queen to lay in. If you don't have any eggs after a few days, there are a couple of possibilities. One is that the queen died. The other is that the swarm had a virgin queen. She is in the process of mating.

>>>I read that the eggs need to be less than three days old for them to make a queen out of it.
The egg hatches at 3 days old. There is a window of a couple of days from the time of hatching, until the larvae is too old to be raise as a good queen. I'm sure one of the more knowledgeable beeks on here will give you the exact age in hours. I just want to let you know that if you give them an egg, they can raise a queen from it no matter whether it is a one day old egg, or a three day old egg. The process begins for raising a queen, after the egg hatches.

>>>They seemed more disorganised than they usually are; they flew around in circles and climbed up the walls, didn't seem to venture out much.
I had this with a swarm I caught this year. I knew I had a secondary swarm with a virgin queen. The queen went on her mating flights, and never returned. I assume she was eaten by a hungry bird. My mentor told me that the weird behavior I was seeing in front of the hive was probably a sign of that queen leaving, and the bees not really knowing what to do. Swarm and go with her? Await her return nervously?

Don't let this experience get you down. You are observing and learning along with the rest of us. Sometimes you can do everything right, and it still falls apart. Other times you can really mess up, and the bees still come through. Have fun with it.
       

[Kathyp]

If the bees are drawing and filling comb, you are off to a good start.

when you get a swarm, it's a good idea to leave it alone for a week or so and then check it.  if they have comb for honey, they have comb for eggs.  The queen will usually start laying quickly.  check again in a few days.

I think what you are seeing in front of your hive is orientation behavior.  Just as new bees leaving the hive orient to the hive, so will bees that have been moved.   

swarm catching is a relatively easy way to increase your yard.  Do not be discouraged.  Even the most expeienced can't save them all and it is a learning process. 

How many frames of bees do you estimate you have left?

[BeeMaster2]

">>>I read that the eggs need to be less than three days old for them to make a queen out of it.
The egg hatches at 3 days old. There is a window of a couple of days from the time of hatching, until the larvae is too old to be raise as a good queen. I'm sure one of the more knowledgeable beeks on here will give you the exact age in hours. I just want to let you know that if you give them an egg, they can raise a queen from it no matter whether it is a one day old egg, or a three day old egg. The process begins for raising a queen, after the egg hatches."

The larvae have to bee less than 3 days old, 6 days from the day the egg was laid. I just had a queen hatch in my Observation hive that took a full 16 days from when I removed the queen to hatch. They could have used older larvae but for some reason they did not.
What is important is that the larvae was still being fed royal jelly and was never fed bee bread. The bee bread has enzymes that inhibit a bee from being a queen. The royal jelly does not. On the 3rd day after hatching, 6 days from being laid, the bees start feeding the bee larvae bee dread.
Jim