How long to wait before requeening after removing the old queen?

Richard M · October 23, 2015, 06:11:43 AM

I've got 2 new queens just arrived.

Tomorrow, I'll remove the old queens; how long should I wait before introducing the new queens?

BeeMaster2 · October 23, 2015, 01:29:33 PM

Your best bet is 24 hours. It can bee done after just a few hours. When you do it, keep her in the cage. See how they react. If bees seem curious, checking her out, after leaving her in the hive for a while, you can release her.
If you cannot see the cage for the bees, and can hardly move them out of the way with your finger, leave her in the cage for another day and check again.
Bees biting at the cage or are trying to bite her feet mean they do not recognize her as their queen. Bees feeding her through the cage, face to face means they are ready. You could have both. If so, wait until they are all calm around her.
Jim

OldMech · October 23, 2015, 10:06:44 PM

I wait 18 to 20 hours. I have found new cells started at 24 hours, so I dont wait that long anymore.

Michael Bush · October 23, 2015, 10:35:11 PM

I like overnight. That could be as short as 12 hours.

Richard M · October 26, 2015, 12:25:10 AM

Hi chaps, thanks for your advice.

I requeened two splits late last summer (Feb-March) after waiting 24 hours; one took and is going really well, the other disappeared without trace and when I checked it a week later, found queen cells in there. I ran with it for a while but to no avail, the queen that hatched never laid any brood (late in the season for drones maybe?), so I joined them to the good hive for the winter.

I removed the queens from my other two hives at 4.00pm, installed the queen cages at 11.00AM the following day, so fingers crossed that it works out.

OldMech · October 26, 2015, 10:46:28 AM

K, let me expand just for clarity...
I requeen after 18 - 20 hours... that means I install the queen cage to "introduce her" to the hive, and allow them to release her by eating the candy plug... OR, I put her in a hive and wait two to three days before releasing her, observing their reaction to her in the cage before manually releasing her into the hive......
That doesnt mean I wait 18 - 20 hours and release her. Just to be clear.

iddee · October 26, 2015, 10:58:55 AM

I remove the old queen, put the cage in the hive with the new queen, close it up and move on. If the cage has a goodly amount of candy in it, I remove the cork and let them slow release her. If little or no candy, I leave both corks in for 3 days and manually release her then. Why wait? They know they are queenless in 1 to 3 hours, then I give them 2 to 3 days to accept the new one.

capt44 · October 26, 2015, 05:53:52 PM

I'd go 12-24 hours to let the old queens pheromone scent to disappear.

AR Beekeeper · October 31, 2015, 09:46:03 PM

A colony of bees recognize that they are queenless within 1 hour or less. I would remove the old queen and place the new queen in her cage in the brood nest at the same inspection. It helps to remove the attendants before placing in the colony.

rookie2531 · November 03, 2015, 05:02:34 PM

How did it go? How did you do it?

I have only done it a few times and every time was successful. I removed the queen and placed the cage at the same time, maybe waited 2-5 minutes.

Richard M · November 10, 2015, 02:14:43 AM

Quote from: rookie2531 on November 03, 2015, 05:02:34 PM
How did it go? How did you do it?

I have only done it a few times and every time was successful. I removed the queen and placed the cage at the same time, maybe waited 2-5 minutes.

Removed the old queens at 4.00pm, came back following day at 10.00AM and placed new queens in cages with fondant plug and left them closed up.

Came back 8 days later (dodging bad weather) and opened them up. Both cages were empty (hurray!) but I could only find one of the queens and she was running around on her lonesome on one of the outer frames - they seemed to be ignoring her. I couldn't find any eggs in either hive.

I put the lids back on and retired for a think - anyway, no time to deal with it for a few days but went back yesterday for a look.

I found the same queen again but she was surrounded by bees and there was lots of new eggs and very young brood in her hive. All of the older brood was capped; there being no big fat, pre-capped grubs left in either hive, so I guess that's from the hiatus between the old queen being removed and the new queen getting started.

I still couldn't find the other queen but from the presence of eggs and new brood (lots of them), I know she's in there somewhere.

Both queens were marked with blue spots but I noticed that the one I did find had very little blue left on her, it had almost all worn off, so now I'm thinking that the other queen has possibly lost hers altogether and as I was looking for a blue spot, probably missed her.

Interesting though, the last time I requeened my other 2 hives back in February (one unsuccessfully, hence my thread starter), there were new eggs and brood in the one which was successful at the first inspection, 7 days after requeening. I wonder if these new queens were so new that they weren't laying initially and have only just come into production?

It is Spring here and I reckon the breeder is probably pushing them out of the door as soon as they're available.

Michael Bush · November 10, 2015, 08:09:02 AM

When looking for a queen, never look for the mark. Look for the queen. First, she may no longer be marked, second, she may no longer be the one that was marked, and third, the mark is not as helpful as you think...

http://www.bushfarms.com/beesqueenspotting.htm

rookie2531 · November 12, 2015, 06:08:26 AM

Maybe, those queens took some time to get started, because they were banked for awhile. I should mention, the ones I did, were ones that I reared and caged for a day before intro. That probably makes a difference.

capt44 · November 22, 2015, 09:59:52 AM

I have found that whether the queens are mated or virgin the longer you hold them in a queen bank the more the queen is likely to degenerate or be a poor egg layer.

Michael Bush · November 23, 2015, 09:47:16 AM

After experimenting with banking I concluded that it is how EARLY they are banked, not how long that makes a difference. I could see no difference between the ones that were banked for six months and the ones that were never banked, but there is a difference between the ones that were banked right after they laid a few eggs and the ones that were banked several weeks after they started to lay.

Richard M · January 24, 2016, 01:42:15 AM

Both of the requeened hives are going really well now, glad I did it as one hive was psycho but producing lots of honey & brood, the other was hopeless all round, not much brood, not that many bees, no stores, just failing to thrive.

Now the requeening's kicked in, (both Kangaroo Island queens - purest known Ligurian strain in the world apparently), the brood nest in both is booming and the psycho hive has calmed down AND filled 3 boxes of honey; the previously useless hive has come up to full strength on bee numbers and they've enough honey to get them through winter ok, but not enough for us to take - bad timing to get behind the 8-ball I guess.

I should add that this apiary is in a bushland area, no farms, orchards or irrigated gardens and we've been in the grip of a pretty serious El Nino drought since winter, we're now at the start of an unprecedented 4 day Total Fire Ban with about 70 big fires going across the State, we've had smokey conditions for a week now. Rainfall Jan to date is 7mm (1/4"), since Sept, our rainfall is down by 55% on normal, so I wasn't expecting much anyway.