Burnt tasting honey

omnimirage · February 01, 2016, 08:53:54 AM

I have recently finished processing my first large honey extraction: about 12 kilos of honey! Only thing is, the honey tastes burnt, and is of inferior quality because of so.

I haven't heated up the honey. The honey came from rather old, black comb; could that have something to do with it? I once had smoky tasting honey, and I figured it was because of my smoker: could this have caused it?

I'm going to have to sell this as some sort of B-grade, cooking honey. Does anyone also do this?

BeeMaster2 · February 01, 2016, 01:27:44 PM

Omni,
Did you use an electric decapping knife? If so there is your answer to the burnt flavor.
If you use too much smoke, it will definitely cause a smoky flavor and decrease the value of the honey. Just use a little to calm them before you open the hive and a light amount when needed on top of the hive with out forcing it down between the frames.
Jim

Rust Bucket · February 06, 2016, 07:13:53 AM

I believe your bee's have harvested "Honeydew".
It has that strong burnt flavor.

omnimirage · February 09, 2016, 12:07:18 AM

I didn't use an electric decapping knife. Are they not good for this reason?

It does appear to be more "smoky" rather than "burnt". I do routinely blow more smoke on the hive, especially when I take out a frame. Perhaps this is a mistake I'm making?

I don't believe it's honeydew, I think it's Mallee (however it's spelled)

Michael Bush · February 09, 2016, 09:32:13 AM

>I didn't use an electric decapping knife. Are they not good for this reason?

It CAN be not good if you let it burn the honey. Make sure it's adjustable and adjust it. Don't let it sit idle. If you aren't uncapping, turn it off.

>It does appear to be more "smoky" rather than "burnt". I do routinely blow more smoke on the hive, especially when I take out a frame. Perhaps this is a mistake I'm making?

Light the smoker. Blow a puff in the door. Put it on the ground and leave it. Too much smoke will definitely make your honey taste like smoke.

http://www.bushfarms.com/beessmoke.htm

KeyLargoBees · February 09, 2016, 10:38:46 AM

Far be it for me to argue with MB :-) and this comes from a purely theoretical point of view and my experience with TRYING to get things to taste smokey (yes I love to BBQ/Smoke)

But I am seriously skeptical that any beekeeper could actually use enough smoke to significantly impact the taste of the honey....I guess if there is a large amount of uncapped nectar and you went bat sh*t crazy with your smoker and did it on a weekly basis and were blowing so hard you were putting ash and sparks into the hive or if you used something with a really vile smell as it burned you might be able to have a truly marginal effect but even that is a stretch in my mind. Most likely the girls got into something with a "smokey" flavor.....hell I was smoking for the 4th of July last year and using homemade honey based hickory smoked BBQ sauce on some ribs and was 50 ft from the hives and had to keep the sauce pot covered or inside because the bees wouldn't leave it alone....maybe that or something similar is where the flavor came from?
"
JP has a youtube video where he did a removal at the Zoo and ran across neon green "honey"....the bees were working spilled sno cone syrup and brought so much back an entire comb section had funky colored honey...who knows what they will forage...but I really doubt you can get enough smoke from your smoker into a hive to taint an entire batch of honey.

Slap me down if I am wrong MB or anyone else....just my 2 cents.

Michael Bush · February 09, 2016, 10:58:29 AM

>Slap me down if I am wrong MB or anyone else....just my 2 cents.

Well, I wouldn't do that... but yes you can smoke them enough to effect the taste. It's been done many times by many people including me when I was inexperienced...

KeyLargoBees · February 09, 2016, 11:03:21 AM

I stand corrected.....still seems extremely unlikely to me...but I will take your personal experience over my theoretical stance as fact ;-)

BeeMaster2 · February 09, 2016, 12:08:57 PM

Jeff,
In a honey judging contest, one of the things they are looking for is smoke flavoring in the honey and they take a lot of points off for it. Very common, especially with new beekeepers.
Jim

KeyLargoBees · February 09, 2016, 01:17:34 PM

Note to self....keep my BBQ pit further away from the hives.

I guess even as a relatively new beekeeper I have never seen the need to over smoke....a puff here and there to clear an area and some under the cover and the front entrance before you crack the lid.....maybe its me never having seen someone "oversmoke"....a difficult concept for me.....If Jim and MB say its so.....who am I to argue ;-)

Michael Bush · February 09, 2016, 01:29:43 PM

>I guess even as a relatively new beekeeper I have never seen the need to over smoke....

The books out there do not seem to focus on the amount of smoke and some new beekeepers are frightened of getting the bees upset, so they pour the smoke in until it comes out the top...

KeyLargoBees · February 09, 2016, 01:43:44 PM

LOL...

<Best Dr McCoy imitation> Dammit Jim that's a beehive NOT a Chimney!!!!

Michael Bush · February 09, 2016, 03:30:28 PM

My first mistake in this direction was when I wanted to drive them out of the super with smoke. When it doesn't work, you use more smoke. Not very productive and smokey honey...

divemaster1963 · February 09, 2016, 10:38:40 PM

That why i prefer using a fume board. A little goes long way.
John

omnimirage · February 19, 2016, 10:26:22 AM

I commonly use eucalyptus leaves in my smoker, and have once been told that my honey had such a fragrance on it.

Quote from: Michael Bush on February 09, 2016, 09:32:13 AM

http://www.bushfarms.com/beessmoke.htm

Some useful information here, I didn't know much of this. Just to clarify and aid my learning, I'd like to ask some questions:

"People blow the smoke in and immediately open the hive. If you wait a minute the reaction will be completely different."

I didn't know it was ideal to wait. Why is it actually best to wait for? In what way do they react differently?

"As soon as the cover is raised, a little smoke is blown across the tops of the frames, not down into the hive"

I routinely blow a light amount of smoke down into the hive, whenever I remove a frame. I hear the bees "fizzle" in response to such, and I take that as a sign of them being exposed to the smoke, and therefore, sedated. It appears my understanding of smoke usage is way off. Why is this not a good practice?

BeeMaster2 · February 19, 2016, 12:40:27 PM

Quote from: omnimirage on February 19, 2016, 10:26:22 AM
I commonly use eucalyptus leaves in my smoker, and have once been told that my honey had such a fragrance on it.

Some useful information here, I didn't know much of this. Just to clarify and aid my learning, I'd like to ask some questions:

"People blow the smoke in and immediately open the hive. If you wait a minute the reaction will be completely different."

I didn't know it was ideal to wait. Why is it actually best to wait for? In what way do they react differently?

When you add smoke, it does 2 things. It blocks their communications and it tells them to fill their stomachs with honey in case they have to leave due to fire. It takes them a little bit of time to fill their stomachs. This helps to calm the bees. Now they are less likely to sting. Swarm bees have full stomachs.

Quote from: omnimirage on February 19, 2016, 10:26:22 AM
"As soon as the cover is raised, a little smoke is blown across the tops of the frames, not down into the hive"

I routinely blow a light amount of smoke down into the hive, whenever I remove a frame. I hear the bees "fizzle" in response to such, and I take that as a sign of them being exposed to the smoke, and therefore, sedated. It appears my understanding of smoke usage is way off. Why is this not a good practice?

You are coating the frames with smoke tar and changing the flavor of the honey. If you do not have a packed smoker that was lit from the bottom, you are probably also blowing very hot gases on the bees and upsetting them.

Michael Bush · February 19, 2016, 03:18:38 PM

>>"People blow the smoke in and immediately open the hive. If you wait a minute the reaction will be completely different."
>I didn't know it was ideal to wait. Why is it actually best to wait for? In what way do they react differently?

They will be more calm. Don't know why. The "gorging" theory is wrong in my opinion, but it works better to wait.

>>"As soon as the cover is raised, a little smoke is blown across the tops of the frames, not down into the hive"
>I routinely blow a light amount of smoke down into the hive, whenever I remove a frame. I hear the bees "fizzle" in response to such, and I take that as a sign of them being exposed to the smoke, and therefore, sedated.

The object is not to sedate them. The object is to interfere with any alarm pheromone in the air or their smelling of it, while at the same time not upsetting them.

>It appears my understanding of smoke usage is way off. Why is this not a good practice?

Imaging you're at a campfire and a wiff of smoke blows by. Smells nice. Now the wind shifts and all the smoke is right in your face. Not a calming effect...

cao · February 19, 2016, 08:34:57 PM

Quote from: Michael Bush on February 19, 2016, 03:18:38 PM
Imaging you're at a campfire and a wiff of smoke blows by. Smells nice. Now the wind shifts and all the smoke is right in your face. Not a calming effect...

I like that analogy. I may have to steal it.