Requeening Question

PhilK · February 21, 2016, 08:03:32 AM

Hi all,

We are re-queening one of our hives as the existing queen is of unknown age and producing a very poor brood pattern. I just have a question about logistics, and want to make sure I get this right.

The new queen should arrive on Thursday. I can only go into the hives in the mornings - should I open the hive on Thursday morning and pinch the existing queen, then place the new queen in the following morning? This would leave the colony queenless for 24 hours - I have heard that helps success of requeening. Any other tips or tricks?

A further few questions: what should I do with the queen in the cage between receiving her and placing her in to the hive. She's getting delivered to my work so she won't overheat (we have air con), but between going home and placing her in the hive the next morning what do I need to do to look after her?

Michael Bush · February 21, 2016, 11:06:06 AM

>The new queen should arrive on Thursday. I can only go into the hives in the mornings - should I open the hive on Thursday morning and pinch the existing queen, then place the new queen in the following morning?

I would never pinch the queen. When I was ready to dispose of her I would drop her in a jar of alcohol. Her pheromones are too valuable for swarm lure to waste... but no I would not kill the queen until the new queen is laying. Pull the frame of brood with the queen and a frame of honey and put them in the smallest box you have filled out with empty frames. When the new queen is laying, drop the old queen in alcohol and give the frame of brood and honey back to the original hive. I also would not do any of this until I have the new queen in hand and she is alive.

>This would leave the colony queenless for 24 hours - I have heard that helps success of requeening. Any other tips or tricks?

12 hours is better. In 24 hours they will have started queen cells to replace the old queen. When you get the new queen, go out in the evening and remove the old queen. Go out the next morning and introduce the new queen in a candy cage with the candy exposed. If your schedule wont' allow that, 24 hours will do but not as well as 12...

>A further few questions: what should I do with the queen in the cage between receiving her and placing her in to the hive. She's getting delivered to my work so she won't overheat (we have air con), but between going home and placing her in the hive the next morning what do I need to do to look after her?

One drop of water per day. No more. On the screen wire. Two drops is too many. No drops is too few... Somewhere dark and quiet is best. A desk drawer. The basement. A closet.

iddee · February 21, 2016, 11:27:24 AM

As MB said, 12 hours is better, but I prefer 2 hours to 24. If you can't do morning/evening, or evening/morning, then remove the old and put the new in before going to work. The longer the better, but 1 hour is sufficient. I have done some with no interlude and never had a problem.

PhilK · February 21, 2016, 07:28:09 PM

Quote from: Michael Bush on February 21, 2016, 11:06:06 AM
I would never pinch the queen. When I was ready to dispose of her I would drop her in a jar of alcohol. Her pheromones are too valuable for swarm lure to waste...

This sounds interesting - can you elaborate?

Quote... but no I would not kill the queen until the new queen is laying.

So if I put the new queen in on Friday morning and check on Sunday afternoon there should be eggs from the new queen right?

QuotePull the frame of brood with the queen and a frame of honey and put them in the smallest box you have filled out with empty frames.

I only have a 10 frame deep box, would that be OK?

QuoteI also would not do any of this until I have the new queen in hand and she is alive.

Good point!

QuoteWhen you get the new queen, go out in the evening and remove the old queen. Go out the next morning and introduce the new queen in a candy cage with the candy exposed. If your schedule wont' allow that, 24 hours will do but not as well as 12...

Hmmm I don't get home til just on dark, I heard you shouldn't open a hive in the evening? Or is it worth it in this case.

LKBruns · February 21, 2016, 07:36:41 PM

What type of alcohol 91% rubbing alcohol or something like Everclear?

BeeMaster2 · February 21, 2016, 08:38:25 PM

Quote from: LKBruns on February 21, 2016, 07:36:41 PM
What type of alcohol 91% rubbing alcohol or something like Everclear?

I use rubbing alcohol. Works great. Even virgin queens work.
Jim

LKBruns · February 21, 2016, 10:35:18 PM

Thanks - next year I will be requeening my hives. Can I put several queens in the same jar or should I put each queen in its own small vial / jar?

BeeMaster2 · February 21, 2016, 10:43:48 PM

Quote from: LKBruns on February 21, 2016, 10:35:18 PM
Thanks - next year I will be requeening my hives. Can I put several queens in the same jar or should I put each queen in its own small vial / jar?

I put them all in one jar. I used to place one dead queen from the jar in a trap. Now I usually just place a Q-tip dipped in the alcohol in the trap with a few drops of lemon grass oil on the tops of the empty frames. I also put one old drawn frame on one side of the box.
Jim

Michael Bush · February 22, 2016, 10:35:18 AM

>>I would never pinch the queen. When I was ready to dispose of her I would drop her in a jar of alcohol. Her pheromones are too valuable for swarm lure to waste...
>This sounds interesting - can you elaborate?

Get a jar. Fill it half full of isopropyl rubbing alcohol, or everclear, or vodka, or whatever you like that is fairly high alcohol content and not a lot of other smells/flavors. Drop the queen in the jar. Put on the lid. Repeat whenever you retire a queen. The liquid will turn brown then darker. The darker it is the better lure it makes. I dip one of those double ended cotton swabs in the queen juice and the other end in Lemongrass essential oil. It will usually lure a swarm hanging on a branch in a tree into an old bees box with some drawn comb in an hour or less.

>So if I put the new queen in on Friday morning and check on Sunday afternoon there should be eggs from the new queen right?

EXTREMELY doubtful. I've seen newly introduced queens take as long as a week and as short as three or four days.

>I only have a 10 frame deep box, would that be OK?

If that's the smallest you have. Smaller would help. A two frame would be ideal.

>Good point!

They often enough don't arrive alive and sometimes they get lost and don't arrive at all... or a week or two later and then they are really dead...

>Hmmm I don't get home til just on dark, I heard you shouldn't open a hive in the evening? Or is it worth it in this case.

Light a smoker, smoke them a little. Put the cage in the top box. I don't like to, but I have done it in the dark... You're not pulling out frames. But bees are very defensive and crawl a lot in the dark. Make sure you are wearing protection.

PhilK · February 22, 2016, 07:11:37 PM

Quote from: Michael Bush on February 22, 2016, 10:35:18 AM

>Hmmm I don't get home til just on dark, I heard you shouldn't open a hive in the evening? Or is it worth it in this case.

Light a smoker, smoke them a little. Put the cage in the top box. I don't like to, but I have done it in the dark... You're not pulling out frames. But bees are very defensive and crawl a lot in the dark. Make sure you are wearing protection.

Putting the queen in will be OK, that will be in the morning.. I will have to find the old queen in the evening so I will be pulling frames. I will smoke and wear protection and hopefully we'll be right! It will be evening not dark, and they still seem to be flying a fair bit when I get home from work so hopefully we'll be OK!

Michael Bush · February 23, 2016, 09:00:06 AM

I should have said, I've seen queens that took two weeks to start to lay... but a week is more likely and a couple of days is possible. Evening should be fine if you wear gear and light a smoker.

PhilK · February 25, 2016, 08:59:56 PM

Requeening on Saturday so just a final question. I have easy access to formalin and methylated spirits at work. I assume metho is the better of the two, but is it suitable?

Dallasbeek · February 25, 2016, 09:18:10 PM

I'd say vodka beats either one. You only need a couple of ounces. And you don't want something foul smelling. You're going to use this to attract bees, not drive them away.

PhilK · February 27, 2016, 10:20:39 AM

Thanks for the advice!

Removed the old queens this morning, went and picked up the new ones (one is a Cordovan and she looks very nice!), and installed the new queens this arvo.

Working without gloves for the first time and got stung for the first time since I was a kid on the knuckle when placing the queen cage in to my normally placid hive. They seemed annoyed... does being queenless make them more upset than usual or would it just be the fact I'd opened the hive twice in one day?

Finger swollen right up, very sore, and can hardly bend it! Hope subsequent stings aren't as bad

Dallasbeek · February 27, 2016, 01:56:17 PM

Yep. They don't like being queenless at all.

Seems to me getting stung right over bone (any bone) hurts and swells a lot more than in fleshy areas. Last time I got stung on a nuckle, my hand looked like a catcher's mitt pretty quickly. It'll take a few stings before you build up a resistance -- or react really bad! If I'm not wearing heavy gloves, I use nitrile gloves. They're a little slippery, so bees have a hard time getting a grip, and they resist punctures. But I jave been stung through them, too. I don't like getting stung

PhilK · February 27, 2016, 06:50:56 PM

Quote from: Dallasbeek on February 27, 2016, 01:56:17 PM
Yep. They don't like being queenless at all.

Seems to me getting stung right over bone (any bone) hurts and swells a lot more than in fleshy areas. Last time I got stung on a nuckle, my hand looked like a catcher's mitt pretty quickly. It'll take a few stings before you build up a resistance -- or react really bad! If I'm not wearing heavy gloves, I use nitrile gloves. They're a little slippery, so bees have a hard time getting a grip, and they resist punctures. But I jave been stung through them, too. I don't like getting stung

Next time I'll wear gloves with a queenless colony! Have been using nitrile but decided not to as it was just going to be quick hahah

This morning finger is super swollen and red, even a bit sore in my armpit on that side (local lymph node I assume). Hopefully not a sign I will react badly in the future

Rurification · February 28, 2016, 09:55:00 AM

I've taken my share of stings and the ones on finger knuckles are some of the worst. I wouldn't measure my sensitivity by that sting. I've been stung in other places that barely raised a welt.

SlickMick · February 28, 2016, 03:21:56 PM

I take an antihistamine to reduce the allergic reaction

Mick

Dallasbeek · February 28, 2016, 04:08:51 PM

Quote from: SlickMick on February 28, 2016, 03:21:56 PM
I take an antihistamine to reduce the allergic reaction

Mick

Some people say loading up on vitamine C before working with bees helps if you get stung. I remove shiny watch or anything like that that attracts their attention. Smoke myself just a little.

GSF · February 28, 2016, 09:44:53 PM

The more I got stung over time the less it effected me. As has been said, there are a few sensitive places that hurts more.