Dump out...

triple7sss · June 08, 2016, 09:47:16 PM

I just need some goshdarn commiseration. I have 5 hives going and one of them has just been a hard-doer from the beginning of the season - poor brood pattern, small amount of brood, not as many bees as the other hives and finally a week ago I went through the hive and found no capped brood at all. So I pondered and called around to check availability of queens, examined my options and today I decided to dump them out, put a frame of brood from another hive that is going great guns into the box, bring the frames of honey back after the dump out and see if they'll raise a queen.

I carried the "dump" hive off a ways and put a new hive body in it's place with a frame of brood from one of the other hives. Then I went to the hive I was dumping out and brushed bees off of the first couple frames and took them back to the new hive body. Went back to for another couple frames and what were they full of?....capped brood. I didn't check before I carried them over to dump them but there was a goodly amount of capped brood and they were building a supercedure cell halfway up one of the frames.

So I left the frame of brood from the other hive, dropped the rest of the "dump" frames back in, moved two of the frames of honey up to a second medium which I filled with empty frames and wished them well.

Probably not a lot of damage done - essentially put them back together they way they were with an extra frame of brood and they're raising a queen just as I'd hoped. But I guess the moral of the story is do that one laaaaaaast check before you haul a hive away to do a dump out.

PhilK · June 08, 2016, 11:28:57 PM

Why were you doing a dump out? I'm new but I thought it was to correct laying workers?

triple7sss · June 09, 2016, 12:40:55 AM

No, you're right. Usually you do that for laying workers. I wanted to make sure I got rid of the queen and I'd seen some drone looking brood that looked like it was exploding out of the cell but only a few so I was just trying to wipe the slate clean. I know the queen will sometimes find her way back but thought it was worth a shot.

Dabbler · June 09, 2016, 07:55:28 AM

Triple - If that is the worst/dumbest thing you ever do with your bees you are in great shape!

You caught the mistake early and minimized any possible "damage". I think you would be hard pressed to find another Beek who hasn't at one time or another displayed less than optimal judgment.

. . . . .just don't let it happen again !

Jim134 · June 09, 2016, 07:07:19 PM

Quote from: triple7sss on June 08, 2016, 09:47:16 PM
I just need some goshdarn commiseration. I have 5 hives going and one of them has just been a hard-doer from the beginning of the season - poor brood pattern, small amount of brood, not as many bees as the other hives and finally a week ago I went through the hive and found no capped brood at all. So I pondered and called around to check availability of queens, examined my options and today I decided to dump them out, put a frame of brood from another hive that is going great guns into the box, bring the frames of honey back after the dump out and see if they'll raise a queen.

I carried the "dump" hive off a ways and put a new hive body in it's place with a frame of brood from one of the other hives. Then I went to the hive I was dumping out and brushed bees off of the first couple frames and took them back to the new hive body. Went back to for another couple frames and what were they full of?....capped brood. I didn't check before I carried them over to dump them but there was a goodly amount of capped brood and they were building a supercedure cell halfway up one of the frames.

So I left the frame of brood from the other hive, dropped the rest of the "dump" frames back in, moved two of the frames of honey up to a second medium which I filled with empty frames and wished them well.

Probably not a lot of damage done - essentially put them back together they way they were with an extra frame of brood and they're raising a queen just as I'd hoped. But I guess the moral of the story is do that one laaaaaaast check before you haul a hive away to do a dump out.

If I had 5 hives like you in the same yard. And had one performing as badly as you say No Cap brood. I would have shaken the bees out in front of the good colonies Maybe 2 to3 metres away. Take the rest of the equipment and put it into the colonies that are producing. Or put it in the shed. In my opinion everything else waste of resources. Unless you have a strong nuc to put in it's place.

BEE HAPPY Jim 134

Matt J · June 10, 2016, 09:08:00 AM

I had a laying worker hive and had to do a "shake out". Didn't work by the way. I am a new beekeeper, but it is my understanding that a frame of brood is a good way to attempt to fix several problem.

The problem, from what I understand, with shaking bees, is you lose your nurse bees. Those bees that don't forage yet have not been out of the hive to do orientation flights and can't find their way back. Hence, the theory behind shaking laying workers. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

You said you had a poor brood pattern. Could it be that you saw a frame that had partially emerged? Like I said, I am new, but if i saw a poor brood pattern on one frame, and several frames with a good pattern, I would assume either she figured it out, or some of the brood had emerged. For my untrained eye, I would have to wait until all the brood emerged and she started laying in those frames again to make that decision.

Were there any eggs? And what did you do with the queen? Just trying to learn from someone else's experience.

triple7sss · June 12, 2016, 11:20:14 PM

So Jim and Matt I've kind of heard it both ways. A LOT of folks say that you're essentially done once you get to the point you feel like you need to dump them out. If a hive is in that bad a shape then like you say Jim - save the time and effort and place the equipment where it can be put to better use. I did want to try the "give them a frame of brood" approach once though. Sort of hard to give up on them. They have packed in a good bit of honey and I suppose that might be another option if you have a poor hive - just let them keep producing honey until they just fade away and then try an harvest before the robbing gets too bad.

Live and learn....live and learn....

little john · June 13, 2016, 06:18:33 AM

Quote from: Matt J on June 10, 2016, 09:08:00 AM
The problem, from what I understand, with shaking bees, is you lose your nurse bees. Those bees that don't forage yet have not been out of the hive to do orientation flights and can't find their way back. Hence, the theory behind shaking laying workers. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

You certainly risk losing your nurse bees ...

For situations other than laying workers, I'd recommend doing a 'controlled' shake-out - meaning you place a brood box on the ground with a comb or two of brood or stores (without bees) with a q/x on top, and another brood box on top of that. Then - if you shake-out your bees into the top box - the nurses will tend to move down into the bottom box, and the foragers will tend to return 'home'. It's important to identify and cull the existing queen, but what you do after that very much depends on your plans. Perhaps the simplest solution is to return the contents of the 'shake-out' boxes you've been using back to the original hive, and give that colony a frame of open brood from which to (hopefully) create a new queen.

Or - you could dump the nurses in front of a weak hive on (say) a sheet which forms a ramp for them to crawl up to the hive entrance and beg admittance.

Donating frames of brood to support ailing colonies can work, but equally it can also prove to be a waste of resources. Like many things in beekeeping, it's a judgement call.

The described scenario is a classic case of why seasoned beekeepers tend to keep a few nucs handy - for exactly this kind of situation.

LJ

Jim134 · June 13, 2016, 11:39:58 PM

The original post said there was no capped brood in this colony. By the time this happens the youngest bees in the colonies is approximately 10 days old and there would be no nurse bees.

BEE HAPPY Jim 134

little john · June 14, 2016, 04:30:17 AM

Both Matt J and I were talking about shaking-out bees in general - not specifically about the OP's situation.

If you had read the relevant posts more carefully, you would have understood that.

LJ

Jim134 · June 14, 2016, 08:45:15 AM

Quote from: little john on June 14, 2016, 04:30:17 AM
Both Matt J and I were talking about shaking-out bees in general - not specifically about the OP's situation.

If you had read the relevant posts more carefully, you would have understood that.

LJ

It sounds to me like another thread hijack and went off subject. Just an observation

BEE HAPPY Jim 134

little john · June 14, 2016, 09:39:28 AM

Quote from: Jim 134 on June 14, 2016, 08:45:15 AM
Quote from: little john on June 14, 2016, 04:30:17 AM
Both Matt J and I were talking about shaking-out bees in general - not specifically about the OP's situation.

If you had read the relevant posts more carefully, you would have understood that.

LJ

It sounds to me like another thread hijack and went off subject. Just an observation

BEE HAPPY Jim 134

No - not a 'Hijack' - it was an issue related to the shaking-out of bees - which is what this thread is about. You just couldn't be arsed to read what had been written and had made an assumption. Not the first time, I might add. Which is also "just an observation".
LJ

Matt J · June 19, 2016, 07:53:31 AM

Not trying to hijack anyone's thread. Just making conversation about the OP's situation, and thought I'd share that I did a shake out, albeit for a different reason, and I did not get the results I wanted.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk