Felt In A Panic......OH No

billdean · June 10, 2016, 12:29:34 PM

I felt in a panic when I opened up my hive today. Its been 4 days after I opened it up and found queen cups. I have never really felt like the hive was proforming like my other three. Today seemed to confirm that. Now the queen cups that I had found 4 days ago were now queen cells. I didn't no what to do. I ran and got my husband to help me and figure things out. I new they were not happy with the queen. I decided to look in all 3 hive bodies. What I found was 15 capped queen cells some in every box. I was not ready for this! In all the excitement I ran and got 2 nuc boxes I had bought (I guess just for this day) and just started dividing the frames up between them. All of them got 2 or 3 frames of capped brood, honey and pollen. I just left all the queen cells attached to the foundation and transferred bees and all. Now its an hour latter and I am fearful I have done the wrong thing. What have I done? Should I have taken all but a couple queen cells out? I should of! I should of!
The last eggs that I had found in this hive was on 5-30-2016. I have not found any eggs since. My next inspection on 6-1 showed no sign of eggs or brood. There had been a laying queen as of 5-30 but I either rolled her, or she flew off, or the bees did not like her.
The nucs were set back in the same place as the old hive. I put some tree limbs in front of the entrance. Hopefully they don't all end up in the same hive.
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iddee · June 10, 2016, 12:36:32 PM

Other than disturbing them too often, you did fine. Now go back in on June 30 and look for eggs in each nuc. Go play in your neighbors hives until then and give yours some peace.

Psparr · June 10, 2016, 12:36:39 PM

Looks like you'll have a couple new hives! Only thing you can do now is wait. That's the hardest part.

billdean · June 10, 2016, 01:03:37 PM

Quote from: iddee on June 10, 2016, 12:36:32 PM
Other than disturbing them too often, you did fine. Now go back in on June 30 and look for eggs in each nuc. Go play in your neighbors hives until then and give yours some peace.

Its hard not to look in side. I guess I probably look to often but I have learned a lot. I am sure the bees say OH No here she comes again. Do I have to worry about a real imbalance in the hives seeing there in the original spot? Thank You

billdean · June 10, 2016, 01:08:06 PM

Quote from: Psparr on June 10, 2016, 12:36:39 PM
Looks like you'll have a couple new hives! Only thing you can do now is wait. That's the hardest part.

You don't think they will all end up in one nuc?

iddee · June 10, 2016, 01:25:57 PM

They may end up all 3 queenless if disturbed during her emerging, mating, and beginning laying. They may blame the intrusions on their new queen and kill her. Leave them alone for at least 2 weeks, preferably 3.

cao · June 10, 2016, 01:36:58 PM

Quote from: billdean on June 10, 2016, 01:08:06 PM
You don't think they will all end up in one nuc?

Not with the queen cells and capped brood.

Rurification · June 10, 2016, 01:45:39 PM

You did great!

You never know what the girls will do, so don't sweat it. Give them space for a while and keep your eye on their front doors. You can tell a lot about a hive just by watching them come and go. See pollen going in and calm bees, you know they're OK.

I once had some nucs decide they wanted to go back home. So they did. No biggie. You haven't lost anything.

Congratulations on your new little nucs!

GSF · June 10, 2016, 03:10:28 PM

I guess I probably look to often - Maybe you do - maybe you don't. What if you decided to wait a couple more weeks? You'd be wondering where the bees went or you'd see them hanging in a tree.

In your case here's the catch 22, You're new and at this stage you're not going to learn a lot by looking at a box from the outside. There is a lot of truth in advising someone not to go in them too much. Mark the day on your calendar when you last saw eggs and also the day you saw the capped swarm cells.

I'd definitely stay out for at least until they should have hatched. Otherwise you could damage the queen cell through handling it one way or the other. I set a honey super down once and squashed a few swarm cells that were on the bottom of the frames. Luckily there were more in the other super.

We're proud for ya!

yes2matt · June 10, 2016, 03:56:13 PM

Just think, if you had 20 hives, you could go looking at the bees every day and never get on any one's nerves. At least, that's what I think. :)

iddee · June 10, 2016, 04:03:36 PM

Don't get me wrong here. During normal times, weekly, or even more often, is fine. The critical period they are raising a new queen and she is getting settled is much different. If they are disturbed during that time, they can blame it on the new queen and dispose of her. Once she is laying and her brood are capped, then you can resume normal inspections.

But keep in mind, each inspection knocks off about 3 days honey harvesting before they get settled back into routine, so your stores and growth may suffer from too much interference.

billdean · June 10, 2016, 04:06:43 PM

Quote from: GSF on June 10, 2016, 03:10:28 PM
I guess I probably look to often - Maybe you do - maybe you don't. What if you decided to wait a couple more weeks? You'd be wondering where the bees went or you'd see them hanging in a tree.

In your case here's the catch 22, You're new and at this stage you're not going to learn a lot by looking at a box from the outside. There is a lot of truth in advising someone not to go in them too much. Mark the day on your calendar when you last saw eggs and also the day you saw the capped swarm cells.

I'd definitely stay out for at least until they should have hatched. Otherwise you could damage the queen cell through handling it one way or the other. I set a honey super down once and squashed a few swarm cells that were on the bottom of the frames. Luckily there were more in the other super.

We're proud for ya!

Thanks everyone..............I have another question.............all 5 frames in each of the nucs were just about filled right up with either capped brood, honey and pollen. I think there is little room for much more. I believe in a few days more room will be created when some of the brood emerges. Will the queen have sufficient room to lay? At first I thought I should feed them but then I was thinking they are not building comb so why bother so I pulled the feeders. I was afraid they may try to backfill what little space is left or try and store it in the emerging cell space any limit the cells the queen could lay in. Does this sound off base? We are in a good honey flow now.

billdean · June 10, 2016, 04:12:03 PM

Quote from: iddee on June 10, 2016, 04:03:36 PM
Don't get me wrong here. During normal times, weekly, or even more often, is fine. The critical period they are raising a new queen and she is getting settled is much different. If they are disturbed during that time, they can blame it on the new queen and dispose of her. Once she is laying and her brood are capped, then you can resume normal inspections.

But keep in mind, each inspection knocks off about 3 days honey harvesting before they get settled back into routine, so your stores and growth may suffer from too much interference.

Thank You Iddee.............As hard as it will be I will take you advice and stay out of those 2 new nucs. I had no idea an inspection set the hives back that far. I will limit my inspection now for sure.

iddee · June 10, 2016, 04:13:51 PM

All capped brood will emerge before she starts laying. That should give her plenty of room. Check it thoroughly on the 30th and then feed if needed.

PS. If there is a flow going on, they will likely ignore the feed. Also, feeding from a jar with only 3 or 4 small holes, which controls how much they can get, is also a good idea at this time. They have something coming in, but not enough to store. They eat it as it comes in.

Acebird · June 11, 2016, 09:42:30 AM

Most likely feeding is what got you in trouble in the first place. Do you want to repeat the problem again?

sc-bee · June 11, 2016, 12:43:48 PM

15 capped queen cells...sounds more like swarm than not being happy with the queen. Just curious what do others think? But you did good getting them split. As mentioned above over feeding can put them in swarm mode. Where is the queen now?

Edited: >There had been a laying queen as of 5-30 but I either rolled her, or she flew off, or the bees did not like her.<

Oh I see now.. sounds like they swarmed IMHO

billdean · June 11, 2016, 02:29:24 PM

Quote from: sc-bee on June 11, 2016, 12:43:48 PM
15 capped queen cells...sounds more like swarm than not being happy with the queen. Just curious what do others think? But you did good getting them split. As mentioned above over feeding can put them in swarm mode. Where is the queen now?

Edited: >There had been a laying queen as of 5-30 but I either rolled her, or she flew off, or the bees did not like her.<

Oh I see now.. sounds like they swarmed IMHO

I have aways fed sense the package was installed to build comb. I feed with a mason jar with 2 or 3 small holes in it on top of the inter cover. The hives are 5 weeks old. I thought it was the consensus of everyone to feed while building comb? It is very possible they did swarm.

sc-bee · June 11, 2016, 03:03:53 PM

Quote from: billdean on June 11, 2016, 02:29:24 PM
Quote from: sc-bee on June 11, 2016, 12:43:48 PM
15 capped queen cells...sounds more like swarm than not being happy with the queen. Just curious what do others think? But you did good getting them split. As mentioned above over feeding can put them in swarm mode. Where is the queen now?

Edited: >There had been a laying queen as of 5-30 but I either rolled her, or she flew off, or the bees did not like her.<

Oh I see now.. sounds like they swarmed IMHO

I have aways fed sense the package was installed to build comb. I feed with a mason jar with 2 or 3 small holes in it on top of the inter cover. The hives are 5 weeks old. I thought it was the consensus of everyone to feed while building comb? It is very possible they did swarm.

Can be a fine line between feeding and over feeding. Most books will tell you they will not take more than they need or if there is a flow they will not take sugar water. Sometimes just not so. When continually feeding it is important to look at space in the brood nest. If they are taking too much feed and clogging the brood nest the queen will have no where to lay and she can become honey bound and it can lead to congestion and swarming. If they are taking the feed and drawing comb and leaving space in the brood next you are ok.

billdean · June 11, 2016, 05:56:01 PM

Quote from: sc-bee on June 11, 2016, 03:03:53 PM
Quote from: billdean on June 11, 2016, 02:29:24 PM
Quote from: sc-bee on June 11, 2016, 12:43:48 PM
15 capped queen cells...sounds more like swarm than not being happy with the queen. Just curious what do others think? But you did good getting them split. As mentioned above over feeding can put them in swarm mode. Where is the queen now?

Edited: >There had been a laying queen as of 5-30 but I either rolled her, or she flew off, or the bees did not like her.<

Oh I see now.. sounds like they swarmed IMHO

I have aways fed sense the package was installed to build comb. I feed with a mason jar with 2 or 3 small holes in it on top of the inter cover. The hives are 5 weeks old. I thought it was the consensus of everyone to feed while building comb? It is very possible they did swarm.

Can be a fine line between feeding and over feeding. Most books will tell you they will not take more than they need or if there is a flow they will not take sugar water. Sometimes just not so. When continually feeding it is important to look at space in the brood nest. If they are taking too much feed and clogging the brood nest the queen will have no where to lay and she can become honey bound and it can lead to congestion and swarming. If they are taking the feed and drawing comb and leaving space in the brood next you are ok.

I am not sure if this would apply to a newly set up nuc. I may be wrong but in a nuc you are put 2 or 3 frames of brood. My understanding is the brood would emerge prior to the queen becoming fertile and starting to lay. If that is the case she should have plenty of room would she not? Though I questioned whether to feed a nuc seeing the flow is on and there was plenty of honey on about every frame and they are not building comb. I am feeding the nucs now and they are taking the feed slowly but I still question whether in my case feeding is the right thing to do.

PhilK · June 13, 2016, 11:03:15 PM

If the nucs have a flow on, there is plenty of honey, and they're not building comb I don't see any indication to feed at all. Is there a reason you're feeding?

I'm not the best to listen to as I never have to feed here, just curious as to why you're feeding in that situation