Doolittle: shook swarm

yes2matt · July 07, 2016, 10:42:02 PM

I got Doolittle's book _A Years Work in an Out Apiary_ onto my kindle from archive.org. (thanks @little john) It's a great read, and very relevant to me as I play bees only on weekends (which makes my backyard a lot like an outyard )

Anyway, Doolittle makes repeated reference to a swarm prevention technique he calls variously "shaking a swarm," or "shaking out the bees " or "treating a hive " but his description of the actual practice is oblique. Probably because he assumes I know what he's talking about. But I don't, at all. The only swarm discouragement I know is false swarms, checkerboarding, swapping the boxes, and lots of room.

What is he talking about? How do I do it?

gww · July 07, 2016, 11:33:23 PM

I have problims reading it also due to not being knowlagable. I think on the shaking that he is shaking the brood combs bees to the bottom box where he has placed a quarter frame of eggs/brood and all the honey and a honey excluder on top. I think he is removing all the brood except what is in the bottom. He is making comb honey and is getting the bees to move the honey up and make room for the queen to lay. I would have to read it again to remember correctly but believe he is removing most of the brood or placing it above the queen excluder. He also placed the brood above the queen excluder for an hour or so to get them to fill up with nurse bees and then used the brood to increase his hive numbers from 13 to I believe 16 hives.

That is some of what I believe is going on when he makes these statements of shaking out the bees or shaking a swarm. He was big on using uneven brood to equalize his hives early so they were all about the same size. My computer crashed and I lost all my saved favorites and now have to try and find the link to his book again. Can you post it?

I would like to read it again. I ask some of the same questions on a differrent bee keeping forum but I am almost senile it seems, cause I only remember bits and peices of anything, even things I am trying to remember.

I hope my post is more helpfull then confusing.
Good luck
gww
PS I like all his old saying that he uses. I also found the link.

Michael Bush · July 09, 2016, 03:14:35 PM

If you setup an empty hive and basically shake all the bees from a booming hive into that hive, all the foragers will return to the original hive. If you shake them all in, you should get the queen as well. You now have the equivalent of a swarm. You could accomplish the same thing as a Taranov swarm but that would require making a new piece of equipment...

http://www.dave-cushman.net/bee/taranovswm.html

gww · July 09, 2016, 04:56:58 PM

It looked like doolittle was leaving the queen with the foragers and young bees and lots of honey and no brood to take care of. To me it looked like he was pulling brood frames with out the bees on it.
gww

yes2matt · July 10, 2016, 05:02:02 PM

Quote from: Michael Bush on July 09, 2016, 03:14:35 PM
If you setup an empty hive and basically shake all the bees from a booming hive into that hive, all the foragers will return to the original hive. If you shake them all in, you should get the queen as well. You now have the equivalent of a swarm. You could accomplish the same thing as a Taranov swarm but that would require making a new piece of equipment...

http://www.dave-cushman.net/bee/taranovswm.html

So then when the foragers returned, they would need to go back to nursing the brood? And I would supply them with a new queen or a ripe cell? And in the new box the nurse bees would draw comb for the queen to lay?

yes2matt · July 10, 2016, 05:03:14 PM

Quote from: gww on July 09, 2016, 04:56:58 PM
It looked like doolittle was leaving the queen with the foragers and young bees and lots of honey and no brood to take care of. To me it looked like he was pulling brood frames with out the bees on it.
gww

Who keeps the brood warm? Or is he just pulling it to a weak hive?

gww · July 10, 2016, 08:37:35 PM

Yes
He is putting the brood over a queen excluder on differrent hives for a couple of hours to gether enough nurse bees to cover the brood and then making splits and/or just putting the brood on weak hives to make comb drawing machines to get drawn comb and honey to put on the spring production hives so that they make lots of babies. Best I can tell.
Good luck
gww

Ps doolittle was making section comb honey and was having the bees move the honey from below the queen excluder into the sections so that the queen would have a place to lay.

Michael Bush · July 11, 2016, 02:20:00 PM

>So then when the foragers returned, they would need to go back to nursing the brood? And I would supply them with a new queen or a ripe cell? And in the new box the nurse bees would draw comb for the queen to lay?

Non of them go "back" to nursing brood. The nurse bees stay in the new hive. The foragers almost instantly fly back (usually they hit the air when you shake and go directly back) and they immediately start nursing and warming the brood. It wasn't their job before but they quickly go back to it.

yes2matt · July 11, 2016, 10:51:52 PM

Quote from: Michael Bush on July 11, 2016, 02:20:00 PM
>So then when the foragers returned, they would need to go back to nursing the brood? And I would supply them with a new queen or a ripe cell? And in the new box the nurse bees would draw comb for the queen to lay?

Non of them go "back" to nursing brood. The nurse bees stay in the new hive. The foragers almost instantly fly back (usually they hit the air when you shake and go directly back) and they immediately start nursing and warming the brood. It wasn't their job before but they quickly go back to it.

Right. By "back" I mean return to the job they did before their orientation flight. I suppose it's better than swarming, but it would seem a significant setback, to have foragers return to nursing, and another box full of nurses not foraging. Better than in the neighbors' eaves, sure.

I tell ya, this Doolittle is worth careful study, and his descriptions of the environment are very enjoyable.

He has a diagram of how to shake the bees off a frame, and I tried it his way, they don't even get mad. My old way was not as good.

Michael Bush · July 12, 2016, 09:29:29 AM

Frankly about the only time I would do an actual shook swarm is when putting bees in a different type of box or hive (e.g. Langstroth to top bar hive)