Best Breed of Honey Bee

bwallace23350 · October 12, 2016, 10:34:53 PM

If I was to expand what breed do people recommend and why? I currently have Italians and they have been great but am open to other suggestions.

iddee · October 12, 2016, 10:37:23 PM

https://waynesbees.com/

divemaster1963 · October 12, 2016, 11:09:38 PM

the one I think is best is the ones that have a history of survival in your area. thats why I go with feral hives. they have proven their genitics to prosper in the area.

john

bwallace23350 · October 12, 2016, 11:21:19 PM

I was thinking of Carniolan bee because it is reported to be the most gentle bee but swarms a lot so I can build up more hives faster. I am reluctant to catch feral bees for because I want them to remain feral and stay in the woods as back ups to pollinate if all my bees die. Perhaps that is a crazy idea

JackM · October 13, 2016, 09:46:08 AM

Quote from: divemaster1963 on October 12, 2016, 11:09:38 PM
the one I think is best is the ones that have a history of survival in your area. thats why I go with feral hives. they have proven their genitics to prosper in the area.

john

Agreed

They swarm once a year, make boxes of honey, and are tough. Perpetuating the wild/feral bee is extremely important

bwallace23350 · October 13, 2016, 10:04:33 AM

I agree that the wild feral bees are important and that is why as a new beek I feel it is best if I leave them alone. I have had wild honey bees coming up to my garden for years now. I just am afraid I would cause them to die somehow if I kept them. I will say though that my bees right now are doing very well.

Acebird · October 13, 2016, 02:12:52 PM

I would say go with a run of the mill Italian. There are more plentiful, expand well, produce honey and are gentle. You don't have to disturb the wild bees just split your Italian hives and let them requeen. You will be getting those wild bee genetics anyway without having to do anything. The down side is your hives get less friendly. I can see where my bees have gotten darker from the first ones I had. Maybe a little testier too. But they are still hauling in the honey.

little john · October 13, 2016, 02:58:21 PM

Quote from: bwallace23350 on October 12, 2016, 11:21:19 PM
I was thinking of Carniolan bee because it is reported to be the most gentle bee but swarms a lot so I can build up more hives faster.

Two years ago I invested in a pair of Carniolan Queens - one from Slovenia, the other from Hungary. Best move I ever made, as they are a wonderful bee. The 'excessive swarming' reputation they've developed has resulted from incompetent beekeeping: providing you keep them in big hives, and give them plenty of room, then there's no particular problem with swarming. They are just very prolific bees - so keep 'em accordingly. I'm finding Carnies to be frugal with winter stores and their rapid spring build-up is ideal for my needs.

I also have a second strain - a Carniolan-Buckfast cross, which is equally docile (now on it's 6th generation, and remaining good-natured), but which is somewhat heavier on propolis use than the Carnies. Some colonies are worse than others, so I intend trying to phase out that particular trait.

Since changing over to the Carnies and the Carnie-cross, beekeeping has once again become a real pleasure, and I can walk among the hives and watch the bees at work without risking the unprovoked attacks which were a common feature of the previous AMM mongrels. There's no way I'd go back to keeping those bees - they may have been locally adapted and great survivors, but I found that this came with a very high price tag attached.
LJ

bwallace23350 · October 13, 2016, 04:23:57 PM

I am pretty sure my Italians have already crossed once. Speaking of such I am going to go check them now.

herbhome · October 14, 2016, 03:01:56 PM

I have russians and have been pleased so far. They are good at keeping varroa levels down and SHB are not much of a problem. The only downside I see is they will halt brood production until a flow is on. They winter in a very small cluster and it takes them some time to build up numbers needed for the spring flow. This years spring flow was weak and short. I l doubt they would be any use to migratory pollinators.

divemaster1963 · October 14, 2016, 09:17:27 PM

Quote from: bwallace23350 on October 13, 2016, 10:04:33 AM
I agree that the wild feral bees are important and that is why as a new beek I feel it is best if I leave them alone. I have had wild honey bees coming up to my garden for years now. I just am afraid I would cause them to die somehow if I kept them. I will say though that my bees right now are doing very well.

I am not saying to go out and remove a wild hive from a tree. I place bait traps in known areas of wild hives and do bee removals to get my feral hives. all feral hives will swarm as a natural process of growing. by having the biat hives in the area i'm hoping they find the hive more sutable than aanother tree. I give them as much room as they want. i can walk and sit with them and not be attacked. but when I go into the brood camber is when they become defensive. I like that in them because they controll their hives from invasion of bugs.

john

bwallace23350 · October 14, 2016, 10:36:24 PM

Are the feral good honey makers?

divemaster1963 · October 15, 2016, 10:59:44 AM

i get good results if flow is good. they do like to propulous everything. its their natural thing to do in the wild.

john

JackM · October 15, 2016, 04:05:00 PM

Quote from: divemaster1963 on October 14, 2016, 09:17:27 PM
Quote from: bwallace23350 on October 13, 2016, 10:04:33 AM
I agree that the wild feral bees are important and that is why as a new beek I feel it is best if I leave them alone. I have had wild honey bees coming up to my garden for years now. I just am afraid I would cause them to die somehow if I kept them. I will say though that my bees right now are doing very well.

I give them as much room as they want. i can walk and sit with them and not be attacked. but when I go into the brood camber is when they become defensive. I like that in them because they controll their hives from invasion of bugs.

john

I agree completely.

Looking back I see the OP apparently already has bees and wants to expand to other possible breeds. Therefore we need to look at bee sex life.

The queen when she is bred is bred at a drone collection area. Drones from many different hives will go to this location. Assuming that there are feral and beeks with different species, the queen has potential to be bred from many different mates.

Assuming a hive swarms once a year, there is a queen now getting bred yearly. Her offspring will have been genetically modified from previous years. Essentially this is what makes a feral bee in my opinion. I have no data to back these statements up other than experience, knowledge of biologic diversity, and observation over time.

Going back to the OP again, the point being, eventually the special breed that you may pick will only be that breed for the first queen, thereafter, you have no idea what species' bred with the next queen, and so on.

Oldbeavo · October 15, 2016, 05:05:50 PM

To maintain a genetic level in your hives the introduction of new queens may be necessary. What percentage of your hives do you requeen with queens from a breeder each year?

little john · October 16, 2016, 05:52:37 AM

Quote from: JackM on October 15, 2016, 04:05:00 PM
Assuming a hive swarms once a year ...

Anyone who allows ANY colony to swarm once a year really needs to go on a Beekeeping Beginner's Course.

Bee genetics are essentially a number's game, and there are several ways of 'loading the dice' in your favour - such as the technique of 'Midnight Mating', which has been determined as returning 80% of matings to desirable drones.

There are other steps one can take, like acquiring a second strain of the chosen pedigree bee and creating drone hives which are then positioned to surround one's apiary at a reasonable distance. Such hives can of course be incorporated into the previous method of controlled mating.

As for the pedigree queens themselves, if they are kept within a nucleus colony, then they should be good for at least 3 years, 4 if you're lucky. Importing a new pedigree queen once every 3 or 4 years is hardly a major expense when you consider the many hundreds of daughters she may have created in that time.

As with many beekeeping issues, much depends on your location - specifically the number and proximity of neighbouring apiaries and the type of bees kept there. And of course, the type of beekeeping one is engaged in.

Although there will always be a tendency towards genetic dilution, it is both possible and practicable to maintain a high level of those desirable characteristics afforded by a particular strain of honey-bee by adopting the appropriate beekeeping procedures. If it is not, then my business is doomed to failure.
LJ

bwallace23350 · October 16, 2016, 09:22:35 AM

How far will a drone mating area be? The nearest wild hive is over one mile away from my two hives.

JackM · October 16, 2016, 10:56:20 AM

Quote from: bwallace23350 on October 16, 2016, 09:22:35 AM
How far will a drone mating area be? The nearest wild hive is over one mile away from my two hives.

I would be willing to bet that there is much more than one feral hive near you. No clue on where the DCA's are. They decide.

Yes, a pre-bred queen and if you make sure the hive does not swarm, will keep the genetics pure for how ever long she is alive as they only breed one time. I am assuming you would do like I do and do a split every spring to prevent swarming.

JackM · October 16, 2016, 10:58:03 AM

Quote from: little john on October 16, 2016, 05:52:37 AM
Quote from: JackM on October 15, 2016, 04:05:00 PM
Assuming a hive swarms once a year ...

Anyone who allows ANY colony to swarm once a year really needs to go on a Beekeeping Beginner's Course.

LJ

Your blast there seems directed at me and not at the concept of what I am saying. Also there are beeks who allow their hives to swarm. Don't be one of those heads, remember this is family forum and I have to be civil.

little john · October 16, 2016, 11:31:35 AM

Quote from: JackM on October 16, 2016, 10:58:03 AM
Quote from: little john on October 16, 2016, 05:52:37 AM
Quote from: JackM on October 15, 2016, 04:05:00 PM
Assuming a hive swarms once a year ...

Anyone who allows ANY colony to swarm once a year really needs to go on a Beekeeping Beginner's Course.

LJ

Your blast there ...

What 'blast' ? Try reading those words without imposing your own emotions on them. My comment wasn't directed at you personally, or at any individual in particular. I was referring to incompetence rather than the irresponsible stupidity sometimes shown by some (though not all) 'Natural' Beekeepers.
LJ