Bees Crawling. Some with K Wing.

[Matt J]

I've got a hive that has bees crawling on the ground, and on inspection of about 30 of them, I found 3 with K Wing. I treated with OAV in late August.  I'm thinking I need to do another treatment quick. Any other suggestions?

[Michael Bush]

K wing on 3 bees doesn't mean much.  K wing on a lot of bees would be indicative of tracheal mites.  A log of crawling bees might also be tracheal mites.  Varroa is not related to K wing.  It would seem like OAV would kill tracheal mites, yet I don't know of any definitive study on the topic.

[Aroc]

Haven't heard of k wing.  Is it similar to DWV? (Deformed wing). Is it possible to do any sort of mite count this time of year?  I had a real problem with DWV late in the fall.  I did a series of OAV earlier but must not have been done correctly or I needed to do more.  I elected to place Apivar in the hive and take a chance.  From what I understand the mites may have already doomed your hive.  Note I say may as it appears as though mine have survived.....at least so far. 

Doing something is better than nothing. 

I know this isn't real advice as I am new.  Just wanted to offer my experience on a similar situation.

Good luck

[Aroc]

Replied too soon.  Mike answered your question as well as mine...

[Matt J]

K wing on 3 bees doesn't mean much.  K wing on a lot of bees would be indicative of tracheal mites.  A log of crawling bees might also be tracheal mites.  Varroa is not related to K wing.  It would seem like OAV would kill tracheal mites, yet I don't know of any definitive study on the topic.

Michael, I have seen probably 50-100 bees crawling the past few days. Most do not have K wing, but a few do. These bees cannot fly. What would you recommend be done?  Last inspection in December 25 revealed lots of bees, good stores, a laying queen, and healthy looking brood. I was very pleased with what I saw. We recently also had temps go from the 60s, into the low 20s, and now back in the 70s. All in about 2-3 weeks.

[gww]

Matt
I am first year and so take what I say with a grain of salt.  I just read on a differrent bee site that formic acid would be the treatment for trachial mite.  I did see a nice vidio on how to use a microscope to disect a bee and see if it had trachial mite but do not remember if treatment was discussed.  Have you tried a search of this site for old threads on the subject.  I am out of ideals and wish you the best.
gww

[Matt J]

Matt
I am first year and so take what I say with a grain of salt.  I just read on a differrent bee site that formic acid would be the treatment for trachial mite.  I did see a nice vidio on how to use a microscope to disect a bee and see if it had trachial mite but do not remember if treatment was discussed.  Have you tried a search of this site for old threads on the subject.  I am out of ideals and wish you the best.
gww

Yes. I have thought about Formic Acid.  My thought is that 50 or so bees on the ground is a small number compared to what is in the hive. FA worries me in that I have read horror stories about absconding and queen problems from it. If it a small problem that they might can overcome themselves, I'd rather just let that happen. But I don't want to let them die either seeing as I only have 2 hives right now. I did watch the bee dissection video that Univ or Florida has on YouTube. It is very interesting. Hopefully, my problem is small, and they can handle it themselves. I am going to inspect in the coming days to get a better idea. I am also going to do a sugar roll just to see what the Mite count is, but as Michael said, K Wing isn't known to be specifically caused by Varroa. We will see.


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[Michael Bush]

>Haven't heard of k wing.  Is it similar to DWV? (Deformed wing)

No.  It's not deformed wings.

http://www.backyardbeekeeping.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/k-wing.jpg
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-KKl2F8gzXOQ/TXTPxON2rXI/AAAAAAAA1io/59zER-baj_0/s1600/internetexampleofKwing.jpg

Rather than the wings being deformed, the forewing and back wing have come disjointed from each other and the back wing has projected in front of the forewing.

As soon as we stopped treating for Tracheal mites it became a rare problem.  I don't think treating is the solution.

[sc-bee]

Trachea Mites...easy prevention or keep from spreading right....crisco and sugar...is this still correct or a lost thing of the past... A lot of folks say trachea mites are a thing of the past but I have heard some folks like Jamie Ellis say otherwise..i guess it could be a regional thing.

Excerpt from Jennifer Berry's Georgia Bee Letter, University of Georgia's
Dept. of Entomology: "If you haven't already done so, now [early February] is the time to treat with oil extender patties: two parts sugar to one part vegetable shortening or oil.....make up small patties about four inches in diameter and 1/2 inch thick and place on a piece of wax paper ... place the square on top of the frames in the brood chamber. While the bees consume the sugar, oil from the patty will adhere to their bodies. The oil acts like a shield thus the tracheal mites are unable to recognize suitable young hosts. Oil patties are acceptable for prolonged treatment since the oil will not contaminate honey supplies."
You can remove the wax paper if there is any left after the bees have consumed the patty or when you put the honey supers on.
Clarification: the sugar/crisco patty is a method for helping to prevent tracheal mites from infecting bees or spreading throughout the hive; it is not a method for treating bees already infected. To do that you should use one of the menthol treatments.
Crisco patties also come in the form of extender patties and wintergreen/salt patties.

[Beeboy01]

Menthol crystals are effective for tracheal mites but can cause absconding and need warmer weather to be effective. Breaking the life cycle with the oil/sugar patties is the best option during colder months. I lost some nucs to tracheal mites two years ago, they either died or absconded six weeks after I purchased them.  All that was left were a couple hundred house bees all with K wings.

[Matt J]

Trachea Mites...easy prevention or keep from spreading right....crisco and sugar...is this still correct or a lost thing of the past... A lot of folks say trachea mites are a thing of the past but I have heard some folks like Jamie Ellis say otherwise..i guess it could be a regional thing.

Excerpt from Jennifer Berry's Georgia Bee Letter, University of Georgia's
Dept. of Entomology: "If you haven't already done so, now [early February] is the time to treat with oil extender patties: two parts sugar to one part vegetable shortening or oil.....make up small patties about four inches in diameter and 1/2 inch thick and place on a piece of wax paper ... place the square on top of the frames in the brood chamber. While the bees consume the sugar, oil from the patty will adhere to their bodies. The oil acts like a shield thus the tracheal mites are unable to recognize suitable young hosts. Oil patties are acceptable for prolonged treatment since the oil will not contaminate honey supplies."

If I have 2 brood chambers, do I put one on top of each, or just one on the highest?



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[Matt J]

Menthol crystals are effective for tracheal mites but can cause absconding and need warmer weather to be effective. Breaking the life cycle with the oil/sugar patties is the best option during colder months. I lost some nucs to tracheal mites two years ago, they either died or absconded six weeks after I purchased them.  All that was left were a couple hundred house bees all with K wings.

Yeah. I've read up on Menthol, and I don't like the idea.


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[Matt J]

I have also read that Chronic Bee Paralysis Virus can cause K Wing, Along with Tracheal Mites. 


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[Acebird]

Doing something is better than nothing. 

Many people make this assumption and make matters worse.

[Matt J]

Pulled the bottom insert yesterday and saw Mites. Also pulled one brood frame to do a sugar roll and saw Mites on bees backs. Did an OAV treatment at 4:30 yesterday, and 14 hours later 50+ Mites on the bottom board.


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[Michael Bush]

It wasn't until people stopped treating for tracheal mites that they ceased to be a problem.  Treating for them just continues the problem.  I always ask if people treat for Tracheal mites when I'm speaking.  15 years ago or so a third of the people would raise their hand.  This last year not more the two or three people total raised their hand...

[Acebird]

I vote we stop pushing flue shots and stop trying to sterilize everything.

[olehunter]

im with brian .no flu shot since 57 had flu once treat with jack ,go to bed  3in in water glass , when you wake up repeat. til you are over it.

[Acebird]

3 ins. of Jack! That ill cure anything.  whoopii