ALMOST DISASTER 1ST INSPEC?

[KONASDAD]

I attempted my first inspection saturday. The hive i purchased  only has a top, no inner cover. The hive is exploding w/ bees when it was sold to me and i wa advised to not wait too long until a another deep is added. W/ that in mind, I went to take off top, and the three inner frames were attached and I could not dislodge. Of course they fell off while I was moving them to an are where I might be able to detach the three frames and the lid. Crash, to the ground. Keep in mind this is my first time, and now I am covered in bees. I have a veil, long sleeve shirt, no gloves and a smoker . I run about 20ft, collect my thoughts, and return as I have now perhaps ruined their home and I owe them a better life. I muster the courage, and begin to pick up the frames. They are just covered in bees. I manage to get all three frames back in the order they came out, I scoop up bees on the ground and put them on a towel I made into a ramp and all appears to be well. NO STINGS!!!!! I walk away and contemplate my mistakes and luck in not getting hurt. I begin to think through the process, and I realize I dropped the most important frames, the inner three or four. I hope the queen is OK. As an afterthought, I return to the scene of the disaster. I look on a tree three feet away, and i see the biggest bee in my life ambling up the trunk. In my inexperience it doesn't dawn on me that its the queen in all her feminine glory. That what made it click-she looked feminine, maternal. I took out hive tool, she walked right onto it, I placed her on the landing board and she marched right back inside to her hive. I also added the add'l deep as I was able to see some queen cells. All appears to be normal w/ hive.
SOOOOO, How do you detach frames from the top, when not using an inner cover? The top is recessed and affords no angle. I thought I could lift a little bit and then turn the top, but the frames would crash back those few inches they were raised.
Any other thoughts and criticisms(which I deserve) would be appreciated.

[Kris^]

Is there no bee space between the tops of the frames and the top edge of the box?  

I would do one or another thing: make an inner cover out of masonite or some other thin material to lay flat on top of the box, or use a migratory cover that affords a way to slide your hive tool in from the side to cut the comb off before lifting too high.

You probably want to make sure the bee space proportions between the top and bottom of your new box approximate those of the existing box.  Otherwise you may spend time cutting a lot of burr comb.  :(

-- Kris

[Michael Bush]

First, never lift a box or a lid without assessing if they are attched to the frames.  If they are, pry the frame loose BEFORE you lift it out.  

Second, it's probably a migratory cover, but even if it's a telescopic, typically that's only about 1 /4" to 3/16" space at the top and that's not really enough.  A typical inner cover has another 1/8" of space or so.  A spacer would be helpful.

Third, if the bees fall on the ground, leave them.  They will find their way back to the hive.  You're more likely to injure them trying to pick them up.

[TwT]

this happened to a friend of mine last year, he picked up the frame and replaced it in the hive then said he looked at all the bee's on the ground and figured they would find their way back in the hive, his hives are just behind his house and he put the top on the hive and went inside, walked into the kitchen and seen a bee on his pants leg, he looked closer and seen it was the queen, put her in his hand and put her back in the entrance of the hive, hive did fine all year.... I told him he just got lucky....always leave the bee's like MB said but also glance over them and see if the queen is there not saying she want walk back into the hive but some have had problems with SBB's with the queen staying under the hive....

[KONASDAD]

I will be adding a spacer on the top. It is a telescoping top and not a migratory top. I was so surprised since the pollinator took off the top 5/3 no problem. Three days later it is glued to the whole brood chamber. Lesson learned.
Suggestions for spacers?
Will probably add an inner cover.
Another option is add my hive top feeder that i am not using at the moment.
Thanx again folks.

[Brian D. Bray]

KONASDAD
when adding space remember that Langstroth determined the beespace to be approx 3/8 inch.  Less and they will glue or plug it tight with propolis, more and they build burr comb. I keep strips of 3/8x3/4 lath for building beespace when necessary, such as lining a migratory top to keep them from filling the space between the frames and the top with propolis which is how frames get glued to the top in the first place.
I do not recommend using a Miller type feeder as a spacer, thats asking for more troubles--lots and lots of burr comb whether the feeding pan is left in or is removed for starters.  An empty Miller feeder can get filled with burr comb fairly quickly.

[Michael Bush]

Between 1/4" and 3/8" is a beespace for the top sides and middle of the hive.  You can push that a bit on the bottom.