The struggle between the bee and small hive beetles.

[Ben Framed]

The never ending battle struggle  bees and small hive beetles has been discussed numerous times through the years. This is a subject that most all of us are interested in and would like to see once and for all resolved.   Yet with all of the discussion, videos, etc on this subject, I  haven't, or don't remember reading, what damage can and does the bee actually inflict on a small hive beetles when "caught"?  I have read and seen videos where the bees "corner" the beetles and keep them at bay but can anyone tell me what damage does the bee actually do to the beetle? Has anyone actually seen this struggle in action? The attack I am meaning, not the cornering.   Thanks, Phillip

[Acebird]

None, they can only paste them in.

[Beeboy01]

If the bee can flip over the SHB it will pick it up and remove it from the hive. Besides that the bees are pretty much helpless when it comes to the beetles except to "jail" them in areas of the hive.

[moebees]

If the bee can flip over the SHB it will pick it up and remove it from the hive. Besides that the bees are pretty much helpless when it comes to the beetles except to "jail" them in areas of the hive.

Yes they will fly off with them and presumably drop them a distance from the hive.

[Van, Arkansas, USA]

Mr. Ben, I believe through my own trials that it is virtually impossible for a bee to sting a beetle.  With the aid a a Nikon Stereo microscope, I have removed a stinger from a Honey bee, gased a beetle with co2 to immobilize then with the aid of precision forceps holding the stinger tried to impale a beetle on the underside of the beetle between the joints at the soft parts and I could in no way sting the immobile, sleeping beetle.  I?m talking with the aid of a 3D scope trying to get the stinger in soft tissue of the leg joints of a beetle.  The bee stinger would bend, not penetrate.

Living in the south, Arkansas, I consider the small hive beetle more of a threat than they varroa mite.   I?m a hobbyist with 10-20 hives and a can of freeze spray instantly freezes the beetles to death for me.  For a commercial breeder, I can only wonder how they manage the beetles.

I also use screen bottom boards, with diatom earth baited with substitute pollen., under the screen of course, away from the bees.  Ben Framed, luv the name, a classic.
Blessings

[Ben Framed]

Mr. Ben, I believe through my own trials that it is virtually impossible for a bee to sting a beetle.  With the aid a a Nikon Stereo microscope, I have removed a stinger from a Honey bee, gased a beetle with co2 to immobilize then with the aid of precision forceps holding the stinger tried to impale a beetle on the underside of the beetle between the joints at the soft parts and I could in no way sting the immobile, sleeping beetle.  I?m talking with the aid of a 3D scope trying to get the stinger in soft tissue of the leg joints of a beetle.  The bee stinger would bend, not penetrate.

Living in the south, Arkansas, I consider the small hive beetle more of a threat than they varroa mite.   I?m a hobbyist with 10-20 hives and a can of freeze spray instantly freezes the beetles to death for me.  For a commercial breeder, I can only wonder how they manage the beetles.

I also use screen bottom boards, with diatom earth baited with substitute pollen., under the screen of course, away from the bees.  Ben Framed, luv the name, a classic.
Blessings

Thanks Van!! You have really did your homework with this! I am very impressed! Y'all have come across with some very interesting facts that I did not know about this subject, so thanks to you, Acebird, Beeboy01, and moebees for your replies!! Much appreciated!! And thanks for the name complement "Ben Framed" lol..   Sincerely, Phillip

[eltalia]

Luuurve that nitro can of freeze Van..the most fun I have had in working bees since
I discovered I could eat honey from the frame and do no harm :-)))

Bill

[BeeMaster2]

?I have read and seen videos where the bees "corner" the beetles and keep them at bay but can anyone tell me what damage does the bee actually do to the beetle? ?
Ben,
After the bees have the beetles cornered, they set guards to keep them locked in. You would expect the beetles to starve to death but the beetles have learned a trick. They have two little paddles on their head. They use them to trick the bees into feeding them while they are trapped. They use them to tickle the bees antennae the same way that the young bees do when they are hungry.
So the bees keep the SHBs alive while they are trapped.
By the way, when you take the brood nest apart, the bees stop paying attention to the SHBs and spend up to 3 days fixing the brood frames while the SHBs run around laying eggs everywhere with out being harassed.
Something to think about every time you inspect the brood nest.
Jim

[Ben Framed]

?I have read and seen videos where the bees "corner" the beetles and keep them at bay but can anyone tell me what damage does the bee actually do to the beetle? ?
Ben,
After the bees have the beetles cornered, they set guards to keep them locked in. You would expect the beetles to starve to death but the beetles have learned a trick. They have two little paddles on their head. They use them to trick the bees into feeding them while they are trapped. They use them to tickle the bees antennae the same way that the young bees do when they are hungry.
So the bees keep the SHBs alive while they are trapped.
By the way, when you take the brood nest apart, the bees stop paying attention to the SHBs and spend up to 3 days fixing the brood frames while the SHBs run around laying eggs everywhere with out being harassed.
Something to think about every time you inspect the brood nest.
Jim

Wow! They are adaptable little devils aren't they!! Very valuable information you are sharing!! Thanks for your response Jim.   Phillip

[BeeMaster2]

No problem.
Look at Gatherings, BeeFest 2018 for a recipe that is supposed to eliminate SHBs from your hives in 14 days. I have not tried it yet but I have 3 friends who swear by it.
Jim

[Ben Framed]

No problem.
Look at Gatherings, BeeFest 2018 for a recipe that is supposed to eliminate SHBs from your hives in 14 days. I have not tried it yet but I have 3 friends who swear by it.
Jim

Thanks Jim, I am thinking that this is the recipe that was discussed in a previous post titled,  My never wet beetle barrier trial ? Is that the same formula? This really looks promising!! Thanks for your reply. Phillip

[omnimirage]

They sure are concerning. They're migrating to my part of the world and seemingly no one around me is prepared for them or knows how to deal with them. One of my hives was lost to them about two years ago.

[Van, Arkansas, USA]

Mirage, there is one fella in your country that can deal with the small hive beetle, Eltalia, Mr. Bill, one of my buddies.  He will tell ya all about it and it?s fun blasting beetles.
Blessings

[omnimirage]

Good to know. One local beekeeper I told about said not to say that I had small hive beetle, that it was scary to say and that I must have been wrong about that. Another man, a beekeeping supply yard man with numerous years of beekeeping experience, said to me that he didn't have anything in stock to deal with small hive beetle, and that small hive beetle won't thrive much in my part of the world due to our ants, according to him the ants will eat the beetles when their babies are in the soil. I'm not sure if that's true or not, but I haven't been hit by the beetle since.

[eltalia]

They sure are concerning. They're migrating to my part of the world and seemingly no one around me is prepared for them or knows how to deal with them. One of my hives was lost to them about two years ago.

They are "migrating" primarily as people with a few hives in their control are
saying, in company..."Ahh, it's a few beetles, the Yanks have them in thousands
and they get by. Don't worry about it the bees will take care of it"

I walk away to regret attending yet another meet/seminar/conference.
I shudder to think what options I will have as an elder disabled man when Varroa D.
hits this Country when it is only "honeybadgers" running the show :-((

Bill

[BeeMaster2]

The problem with SHBs moving into new areas is that when do, the bees do not know how to corral them and they are allowed to lay their eggs unabated. Then thousands of larvae hatch out and if they do not remove them immediately, the hive is slimed and the bees will abscond to survive. If left alone,  it does not take long for the bees to figure how to handle them.
When Langstroth?s bees first encountered wax moth?s they had the same problem. Today, wax moth?s are just a clean up crew of empty and weak hives.
Jim

[eltalia]

The problem with SHBs moving into new areas is that when do, the bees do not know how to corral them and they are allowed to lay their eggs unabated. Then thousands of larvae hatch out and if they do not remove them immediately, the hive is slimed and the bees will abscond to survive. If left alone,  it does not take long for the bees to figure how to handle them.
When Langstroth?s bees first encountered wax moth?s they had the same problem. Today, wax moth?s are just a clean up crew of empty and weak hives.
Jim

:thumbs up:

Bill

[eltalia]

Mirage, there is one fella in your country that can deal with the small hive
beetle, Eltalia, Mr. Bill, one of my buddies.  He will tell ya all about it and
iy?s fun blasting beetles.
Blessings

Hopefully Omni is still following and not engrossed in
TF American practices, Van ol' mate :-))

That nitrio is the Gas.. literally!
Cheap as chips for beetles hit over time and material spent.
Environmentally friendly.
Bee friendly as long as the operator does not suffer from Park'ies
or St.Viidas Dance**
Multiple uses over time with no storage difficulties
Can be holstered safely using a strong magnet inside your shorts/BS
making the b'keep a modern day Wyatt Earp... "no SHB in Dodge, Bro!!"

Fsssssssssssssst   Fsssssssssssst - "give 'em a decent burial Pilgrim".
Uttered as you blow the mist off the tube, and wander off into the
setting sun!

Bill




https://www.justanswer.com/health/19dqs-st-vidas-dance-know-type-siezure.html

[BeeMaster2]

Eltalia,
I do not have a clue of what that all meant. Is their an English version. 
I am quite sure that I?m not the only one.
Jim

[eltalia]

Eltalia,
I do not have a clue of what that all meant. Is their an English version. 
I am quite sure that I?m not the only one.
Jim

heh... I'll share this with you Jim, something not at all widely known about myself even here in "Oz".
It may clear some things if you can stand the read.
I lose (loose) most of the punctuation, too time consuming to correct and likely not understood anyway.

Back when I was a mere lad maybe 14 just I had an agricultural accident which saw me legless for
12 weeks straight then on crutches for another four months in physiotherapy. To my knowledge I am
the only one to have survived the damage of a common injury of the day, myself largely unhindered.
Doctors on seeing the the scars today comment "You have tough bones or your one lucky fella"... I
say Luck combined with involuntary movement (physio) as the mind worked muscles sublimely whilst
the eyes read and my imagination ran like the wind in a hurricane.

Since I did my A(eh) Bee C'z I had a passion for reading, read everything I could get my hands on
and we were of poor hardworking stock so not much of rote but a lot of variation. I'd read a discarded
Womans Weekly, for example right after a page from the Telegraph some punter had left in the
dunny (WC).
I digress.
Those days they kept you in hospital until you could walk out but I never would as much of the injury
turned gangerous because of the conditions in the paddock(field/meadow) it happened in. So I was
to be nursed at home after the surgery was done. This because we had no "teenager" wards and it was
not seen as fit and proper for lads to be in the same ward as men for any long recovery.
And so duly I was shipped out to --- boredom.
That hospital had life.
All home had was work and glares from my siblings as I was "bludging" (loafer/slacker/lazy-B) so it
was I asked SWMBO to get books from the library. That denied as there was a fee involved and a
penalty for late returns buuuuut she had a friend in town who ran a book exchange who would help
out with "penny westerns" FREE.
I literally ate them. She would come home with a payload a mule would struggle with and I would be
into them most(each) read within the hour so as it became a chore for her to carry off the "deaduns" at the
end of a day.
I learnt how to tip me hat, brush away my coat for a fast draw sew up a bullet ridden indian squaw I
had designs on gun down multiple baddies with just six shots ride across the horse firing me
Winchester and blazing away with a huge Navy Colt all the while spurring that horse silly!
And of course... I always had the badge.!! ha hah ha
Now, I never read a single one ever again after leaving that bed but boy oh boy I'll never forget the
fun I had learnin' 'Merkin and walking that talk.
It sure durn did me bones good, like :-))))

Now, I could not tell you which part of the USA those authors came from, could not even tell you who
they were today. So maybe the dialects are so diverse in the USA those who haven't read any
"penny western" are not able to hear the "clip clop" as Sheriff B (beadle) Blaster rides into town wth
his cross-slung pearl embossed nitro cans and the baddies "run for the hills" as he draws and fires a
volley of ice at them.
Maybe some don't feel the satisfaction, sniff the vanishing mist?
But I can. I reckon Van can too.
So maybe just for a few bucks others might join the fun and do bees a power of good? Cheers...

Bill