Drone in a worker cell

[Acebird]

Does anyone have a picture of drones raised in worker cells?

[BeeMaster2]

I probably do on some lost cloud data base somewhere. My first hive was full of them. Queen had deformed wing virus. You can tell if you have them when drones coming out of you hive are the size of workers.
Jim

[Acebird]

I would imagine they would be hard to spot if they are the same size as workers.

[eltalia]

There is a mile of such images on any site discussing FlowHive [tm], Brian.

Bill

[BeeMaster2]

I would imagine they would be hard to spot if they are the same size as workers.

On the contrary, they look like drones but they are much smaller. The eyes are much larger than workers and their abdomen is much larger.
Jim

[Acebird]

There is a mile of such images on any site discussing FlowHive [tm], Brian.

Flow hive is not worker cell.

[eltalia]

There is a mile of such images on any site discussing FlowHive [tm], Brian.

Flow hive is not worker cell.

True, they are not a lot of things Jim... yet workers tend them and queens lay
lay brood in them, drones inclusive. Yet to hear or read of a QC being sighted
on those 'cells' but who knows, maybe it has occured already?

Bill

[Acebird]

I have read reports from Michael Bush that the queen will not lay brood of any kind in them.  However that may just be Michael Bush's flow hive.  Now if some dimwit forces the colony to lay in the flow frame because there is nothing else to use ... I can see that happening.  I can also see them killing every hive they get their hands on.  They are out there...

[eltalia]

"I have read reports from Michael Bush that the queen will not lay brood of any kind in them."

IF there is your read of Michael then I am very sure at some time, Brian, Mr. M. Bush will
set you free under the weight of much evidence to the contrary.

Bill

[Michael Bush]

> However that may just be Michael Bush's flow hive.

I would not say they that a queen will not, but with adequate drone comb in the brood nest I have not seen any yet.

[Acebird]

but with adequate drone comb in the brood nest I have not seen any yet.

Which gets back to providing space for the queen to lay drones and not force the hive to use what it shouldn't.

[eltalia]

but with adequate drone comb in the brood nest I have not seen any yet.

Which gets back to providing space for the queen to lay drones and not force the hive to use what it shouldn't.

errrr.. no.
It gets back to running an excluder when those frames are on board.
An "excluder" not necesarily being a fixed in place device. The effect can be
achieved by other means albeit some risk in an active colony is taken onboard
in doing so.
I quote Mr. Bush's 'method';
{quote}
I run all eight frame mediums and usually my brood nest is three
to four boxes. Four is the equivalent of two ten frame deep boxes.
{end quote}

I would argue "four" mediums is more than - way more than -  two
10fr deeps in bee terms. The bee equivalent of a unassailable pond.

Bill

[Acebird]

Bill four eight frame mediums equal two ten frame deeps. 
Again, it has been said don't need an excluder.  I don't even have one.

[eltalia]

Bill four eight frame mediums equal two ten frame deeps. 

Nope.
Man says the architecture is equal... bees do not.

Argue different as vigourously as you would however the
Jury came in on that one a very very long time ago.
Mediums/Ideals do have a place in the market but that is
determined primarily by Man followed closely by
misinformation being widely accepted as Truth.
Unless a specific circumstance exists nobody anywhere
working _with_ bees should be placing those *barricades*
in the way of bees.

Again, it has been said don't need an excluder.  I don't even have one.

You are running FlowHive [tm] frames Brian?

Bill

[Acebird]

I would like to.  All those beekeepers that say there are problems with flow hives don't want to give them to me.  They are afraid I might succeed.

[eltalia]

I would like to.  All those beekeepers that say there are problems with flow hives don't want
to give them to me.  They are afraid I might succeed.

[chuckles]
... noice dodge there Brian!
Diddun save you but :-)))

[cough]
The point addressed was on those frames, nought else, my Friend.
Regardless of what you might read from them esteemed selves the
working config is no different to any other 3 (three)level hive
structure, or two level where the original advice from the innovator is
followed.
Being;
Brood+Excluder+Flow
In that config a few 'tricks' should be installed for best(fast) results
and so the innovators have changed - modified might be a better term - to
adding an interim super (or medium) above the excluder.
I do neither - I know QX use backwards - and so I cannot give you mine
as I'd then make a rod for mine own back... so to speak 

Bill

[Michael Bush]

>I would argue "four" mediums is more than - way more than -  two
10fr deeps in bee terms

It is not "way more".  The internal size of two ten frame deeps is:
18.375" x 14.75" x 9.625" = 2609 cubic inches * 2 boxes = 5218 cubic inches

The internal size of four eight frame mediums is:
18.375" x 12.25" x 6.625" = 1491 cubic inches * 4 boxes = 5964 cubic inches

That would be 14% more total volume (not much difference) but when you take off for top bars and bottom bars it's essentially the same comb area.

[eltalia]

"It is not "way more"."

oH Michael... oH my goodness, with respects You are the last person "on the Net" I would
have thought sought a lesson in bee think!
Given your maths direction, human maths... perhaps the effiicent way word wise is to
present the bee mathmatical equation for FD over mediums/Ideal as a human Energy
'matrix'?
Some reading would *know* know the purpose of a "Beep Test", for others I quote essence;
"The assessment tests muscular endurance and cardiovascular strength,
through push-ups, sit-ups and a 20-metre shuttle run test. "
A courier bee undertakes such stress in it's duty to pickup nectar from a forager, carry and
process same, to then deposit the honey product into formed cells for storage.
As difficult as that is in a Man built hive do ask yourself what degree of difficulty is introduced
when Man effectively throws a rubber tyre or two onto the "beep test" route, a brake and hop
routine. For mine it is amazing the bee does not "blow a lung out"!!
I would argue "four" mediums is more than - way more than -  two 10fr deeps in bee terms.
No...?....Michael?

The attachment is of me learning how to empathise with the bees when setting
"degrees of difficulty". That *that* is a reflection of just how long ago I was
enlightened as to humane bee practises in setting to work hive structures and
- as I recall -  it all came out of a book, a text book, not selective library reads!
  :chuckles:

Oddly enough many a naysayer on the use of QX between boxes uses
Energy argument as reason to not obstruct bee passage in a hive, yet
somehow magically those same persons turn a blind eye to the
dfficulty for bees in traversing superfluous woodwork. How does that work!?

Bill

[attachment=0][/attachment]

[Acebird]

Ramble, ramble, ramble ... where is that dead horse?  I need to beat it.

[eltalia]

Ramble, ramble, ramble ... where is that dead horse?  I need to beat it.

I'd leave those bees alone Brian... they made their choice.
Fill with bought in manufactured soil to plant flowers in
your MT boxes. :haw haw:

Bill