Summer Pollen Patties

[Bush_84]

I have always struggled with pollen patties. I buy the dry sub and have mixed them with 2:1 sugar syrup. That?s what most of the recipients seemed to call for. In under a week they?d dry out and I?d toss out more than would get used. After much reading I learned that hfcs would keep the patty moist and boy does it ever stay moist. I have not had any dry out thus far and my bees are consuming it like crazy. In the spring that was expected but I?m still experiencing consumption. It?s variable across my hives. It seems that some are still chewing it like crazy and some are ignoring it.

So that introductory paragraph leaves me to my main question...do I keep giving it to them in the summer when there?s plenty of regular pollen available?  I don?t have many hives so it isn?t a huge cost issue. On the other hand I?ve also read Randy Oliver?s research on the matter. That has shown that summer pollen patties didn?t dramatically change hive strength, however I don?t believe he studied Nucs vs production hives. He only studied production hives of varied strength.   It seems to me that my two Nucs are much more aggressively consuming the patties. I?m very tempted to continue feeding it and ignoring the cost and labor. It won?t hurt. I?m looking to see what everybody thinks?

[Ben Framed]

Bush what does hfcs stand for ? Thanks Phillip Hall

[cao]

hfcs = high fructose corn syrup

[cao]

So that introductory paragraph leaves me to my main question...do I keep giving it to them in the summer when there?s plenty of regular pollen available? 

I've never fed using patties but, I would say if they need it then give it to them(at least the smaller ones).  During the past few summers I've noticed that there is a pollen dearth in my area.  I open feed dry pollen substitute so my small hives(splits) can continue to grow.  When I notice the pollen stores of my nucs are nearly gone, I know that it is time to start feeding.  The only downside to me would be if you have SHB's like me.  They would love it if I would feed patties.

[Ben Framed]

hfcs = high fructose corn syrup

Thanks cao, Cao or Bush or someone, what is the recipe for mixing with HFCS?  I noticed a guy on YouTube which feeds small pollen patties, but only enough to last a short period a time as to avoid SHB. Thanks All

[moebees]

I never feed pollen patties at anytime.  Why feed small hive beetles and poor quality crap to your bees. They gather much better for themselves as long as it doesn't have too many fungicides or neonicotinoids in it. 

[Bush_84]

I wouldnt worry about a recipe. I buy the hfcs from Mann lake. I just mix their ultrabee with the hfcs until it looks about right. You want it peanut butterish in consistency. I mash it between wax paper and put in a gallon ziplock bag. It goes into the fridge from there. It stiffens a bit in the fridge but softens again once it warms. 

[sc-bee]

You should be able to search here and find a thread with Lauri's pollen sub, sugar bricks and syrup. Adjust quantities as needed. And yes in warm temps SHB can be a real hazard. Lauri is a queen producer in Washington State. The drying or hardening factor she states lies in how much soy flour is there, That is why she uses a mixture of beepro and brewers yeast. I have heard others say using all ultra bee it will not harden.

As far as feeding??? Some have a summer pollen nutrition deficiency not necessarily a shortage of pollen. And the target is to get "Fat bees" going into winter. So folks claim looking at feed times and the summer bee lifespan of the worker bee (6 weeks) play in. Again- for me pollen sub in the summer in my warm SC climate would be a recipe for sure shb  disaster.

Lauri's protien patty recipe:
25# cane sugar
2 quarts cold water
2 quarts apple cider vinegar
1-2 cups olive oil- depending on your desired fat content
a sprinkle of electrolytes, about 1 tsp.
about 1 T Citric acid
splash of Mann Lake Pro health or other essential oil of choice
Mix these ingredients in a five gallon bucket, mix well with a drill and paint mixer paddle.
Add:
15 cups brewers yeast..mix well
add a few cups at a time:
...aprox 15 cups Mann Lake BEE PRO
(Dry ingredient measurements are approximate, I just dump it in a bit at a time with a big scoop)

Mix should be thick like peanut butter cookie dough. If it is not thick enough, just add more dry ingredients. Too thick and it will dry out in the hive. Too thin and it will drip through the frames
Let it stand an hour or so to thicken. I scoop it right onto the top bars in the hives with a big- one cup ice cream scoop. 2 scoops for big hives, 1 scoop for nucs, 1/2 scoop for mini nucs, but only after the newly mated queen starts laying. They won't take it up unless there is brood to feed.

[Hops Brewster]

Maybe your summer dearth is much more severe than mine in Suburbia.   Is that why you feed patties in summer?
The only time I feed patties is for the early spring buildup, or to give a package a leg up.  Those times of year the patty doesn't have time to dry out.

[Bush_84]

Maybe your summer dearth is much more severe than mine in Suburbia.   Is that why you feed patties in summer?
The only time I feed patties is for the early spring buildup, or to give a package a leg up.  Those times of year the patty doesn't have time to dry out.

There?s a time after dandelions and before my main flow around the end of June where things slow down. Once my main flow hits it keeps going until mid August. Once that stops it all stops. In spring and from August through October is when I think my pollen patties will be the most useful.

[beepro]

I don't have production hives just nuc hives build up to the 5th level.
So I've been feeding these nucs my homemade high protein patty subs. all along.  They like it and
never seem to stop eating for the continuous build up.    I'm not taking the subs off until the mini Autumn
flow is on.   I'm hoping that they continue to make more bees for more splits.   No issue taking them through our
summer dearth this season!    Yes, corn syrup is added to make them stay soft longer.

[Ben Framed]

You should be able to search here and find a thread with Lauri's pollen sub, sugar bricks and syrup. Adjust quantities as needed. And yes in warm temps SHB can be a real hazard. Lauri is a queen producer in Washington State. The drying or hardening factor she states lies in how much soy flour is there, That is why she uses a mixture of beepro and brewers yeast. I have heard others say the usually all ultra bee will not harden.

As far as feeding??? Some have a summer pollen nutrition deficiency not necessarily a shortage of pollen. And the target is to get "Fat bees" going into winter. So folks claim looking at feed times and the summer bee lifespan of the worker bee (6 weeks) play in. Again- for me pollen sun in the summer in my warm SC climate would be a recipe for sure disaster.

Lauri's protien patty recipe:
25# cane sugar
2 quarts cold water
2 quarts apple cider vinegar
1-2 cups olive oil- depending on your desired fat content
a sprinkle of electrolytes, about 1 tsp.
about 1 T Citric acid
splash of Mann Lake Pro health or other essential oil of choice
Mix these ingredients in a five gallon bucket, mix well with a drill and paint mixer paddle.
Add:
15 cups brewers yeast..mix well
add a few cups at a time:
...aprox 15 cups Mann Lake BEE PRO
(Dry ingredient measurements are approximate, I just dump it in a bit at a time with a big scoop)

Mix should be thick like peanut butter cookie dough. If it is not thick enough, just add more dry ingredients. Too thick and it will dry out in the hive. Too thin and it will drip through the frames
Let it stand an hour or so to thicken. I scoop it right onto the top bars in the hives with a big- one cup ice cream scoop. 2 scoops for big hives, 1 scoop for nucs, 1/2 scoop for mini nucs, but only after the newly mated queen starts laying. They won't take it up unless there is brood to feed.

Thanks sc-bee👍🏻

[rockink]

Noob question about feeding patties and SHB. Couldn't you feed patties on some sort of screen to prevent the beetles from ever getting to them?

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

[BeeMaster2]

Noob question about feeding patties and SHB. Couldn't you feed patties on some sort of screen to prevent the beetles from ever getting to them?

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

Beetles are a lot smaller than bees. If the beetles can?t get it, how are the bees?
Jim

[rockink]

Noob question about feeding patties and SHB. Couldn't you feed patties on some sort of screen to prevent the beetles from ever getting to them?

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

Beetles are a lot smaller than bees. If the beetles can?t get it, how are the bees?
Jim

I hear about #8 wire mess hardware cloth being used for bottom boards. If you made a pattie feeder wouldn't the beetles fall through trying to get the patties. However the bees could walk across right?

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

[Bush_84]

Noob question about feeding patties and SHB. Couldn't you feed patties on some sort of screen to prevent the beetles from ever getting to them?

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

Beetles are a lot smaller than bees. If the beetles can?t get it, how are the bees?
Jim

I hear about #8 wire mess hardware cloth being used for bottom boards. If you made a pattie feeder wouldn't the beetles fall through trying to get the patties. However the bees could walk across right?

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

While I don?t have much in the way for shb troubles I?d say this won?t work.

[beepro]

You can try to give the bees smaller 2"x 2" subs.   This way there won't be much space for the
beetles to hide in.   Of course, the beetles can still get in from the hive entrance because they are
smaller than the bees.

[Dustymunky]

I fed pollen patties my first year.  IMO it was more hassle than what it was worth.  Seemed to attract pests and didnt seem necessary.  We have pollen available almost year round here in Portland, OR.  Not sure about your area but if there are flowers or blooming weeds then pollen is available. 

[moebees]

I fed pollen patties my first year.  IMO it was more hassle than what it was worth.  Seemed to attract pests and didnt seem necessary.  We have pollen available almost year round here in Portland, OR.  Not sure about your area but if there are flowers or blooming weeds then pollen is available.

Agree.

[sc-bee]

I fed pollen patties my first year.  IMO it was more hassle than what it was worth.  Seemed to attract pests and didnt seem necessary.  We have pollen available almost year round here in Portland, OR.  Not sure about your area but if there are flowers or blooming weeds then pollen is available.

Agree.

It is not necessarily the issue of pollen coming in all year... it is the quality of the pollen coming in. We all know that all pollens are not created equal. Also note what he says about weed pollen...  Try 4:38.. I was stunned to hear what he said about dandelion pollen....you always hear folks mention the dandelions.... of course he did not say the dandelion was not beneficial.. just don't eat dandelion everyday, all year 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oOaL-a0iKYo