When to stop feeding sugar syrup? (fall)

[2Sox]

I've read many people say that it's advisable to stop feeding as soon as the bees stop taking it. 

But I recently read an excerpt from Michael Bush's online work that if you follow that reasoning, the bees may pack so much syrup in that they may not leave enough room for themselves to cluster during the cold winter months.

Here is the link:   http://www.bushfarms.com/beesfeeding.htm#moldysyrup

Scroll down to "Third, How much do you feed?"

I haven't had to feed sugar in ten years because I use cutout honey when necessary.  And I always have leftover! I fed all my remaining cutout honey to my six hives - about 50 lbs.  And I just finished feeding over 200 lbs more of sugar because they were so light.  I'm in NYC and we've had more overcast and rainy days here than I can remember.  Fall flow thus far has been terrible.  They finally slowed to a crawl taking up the syrup.

But the question of my post remains: When would YOU stop feeding?  When the hives weigh enough as Michael Bush says, or when they stop taking it?  Really interested in knowing your opinions on this.

[cao]

When would YOU stop feeding?  When the hives weigh enough as Michael Bush says, or when they stop taking it?  Really interested in knowing your opinions on this.

I go by when the hive weighs enough, there's no need to feed anymore.  I try not to feed at all but, with some late splits that were slow to build up, it always seems there are a few that needs feeding.  I'm to the point now with the below normal temps around here that it willl be sugar bricks on top of the rest that are light.

[TheHoneyPump]

Go by weight of the hive.  Know the weight that is needed for sufficient stores for your area.  Ask the other beekeepers around you to get that target number. Weigh the hive periodically and Feed to that weight by mid-October then stop.
Do not count how much you have fed. Count down how much more you need to feed to get to the target weight.  Once the hive is within 5% of target taper off the feed.  Stop.

[2Sox]

Thanks, guys.  Looking forward to the feedback of others too.

[TheHoneyPump]

A sidebar:   If you have a hive that is light but that hive is not taking down the feed, it usually means something is wrong.  Weather, Disease, pest, or queen issue.  Go in to inspect.

[blackforest beekeeper]

they need to have empty cells to custer, or they are dead.
so MB?s numbers should be good.

[2Sox]

Blackforest,

What is MB?s ??

[TheHoneyPump]

Blackforest,

What is MB?s ??

Likely means Micheal Bush.  MB. As you have referred to an article on his website.

When it comes to winter stores, the need varies by climate.  Some areas need more than others.  A mild climate that has some winter forage will need much less than an area that has blizzards and -20 temperatures.   So do not use MBs numbers unless his area winter is same or comparable to yours.   That is why I said ask around your local club to get that target number ... and only use the number given by that one person in the club that does not lose bees every winter ;)

[Van, Arkansas, USA]

Blackforest,

What is MB?s ??

MB is Michael Bush.

Blessings

[blackforest beekeeper]

Blackforest,

What is MB?s ??

Michael Bush.
But, as THP (TheHoneyPump) suggested, make sure to put in enough feed for YOUR locale.

[beepro]

I say feed them to weight.  In my mild winter bee environment I don't have to keep all the syrup in the
hive.  I just collect the empty drawn comb to store for the Spring hive expansion.  If the syrup is not cap then
the hives will have a high moisture over this winter.  We are opposite of yours with no rains so far.  The Autumn flow is
slow but beginning to pick up as more late flowers begin to open.   Going to be dryer than usual this season into the next. Somehow the
west coast and east coast weather got reversed this year.

[Michael Bush]

I think you need a target weight.  Best to have that tied to the size of the cluster.  Feed to the weight you decided on.  Or feed to the number of frames of stores per frames of bees.  This will depend on climate also, of course.  So in a location where it's possible to feed all winter it would be different than a place where humidity is an issue and the syrup doesn't get warm enough.

[Acebird]

I haven't had to feed sugar in ten years because I use cutout honey when necessary.

Not the best idea for disease prevention or poison.

[2Sox]

I haven't had to feed sugar in ten years because I use cutout honey when necessary.

Not the best idea for disease prevention or poison.

Good point. However, all my colonies come from swarms or cutouts. I advertise on the Internet and subcontract for several pest management companies.  Very seldom do I buy packages.  I buy queens when necessary.  I put all the cutout honey in my upright freezer to take care there is no moth issue. I seem to be doing okay.

[Ben Framed]

I haven't had to feed sugar in ten years because I use cutout honey when necessary.

Not the best idea for disease prevention or poison.

Good point. However, all my colonies come from swarms or cutouts. I advertise on the Internet and subcontract for several pest management companies.  Very seldom do I buy packages.  I buy queens when necessary.  I put all the cutout honey in my upright freezer to take care there is no moth issue. I seem to be doing okay.

Mr 2Sox, does the freezer also kill any possiable varoa that might be in the cutout comb and honey? 
Thanks, Phillip

[blackforest beekeeper]

I haven't had to feed sugar in ten years because I use cutout honey when necessary.

Not the best idea for disease prevention or poison.

Good point. However, all my colonies come from swarms or cutouts. I advertise on the Internet and subcontract for several pest management companies.  Very seldom do I buy packages.  I buy queens when necessary.  I put all the cutout honey in my upright freezer to take care there is no moth issue. I seem to be doing okay.

Mr 2Sox, does the freezer also kill any possiable varoa that might be in the cutout comb and honey? 
Thanks, Phillip

and the viruses?

[Acebird]

I put all the cutout honey in my upright freezer to take care there is no moth issue. I seem to be doing okay.

The freezer does not kill the bacteria and viruses.  You could be priming a bomb in your apiary and if you sell off hives that might be an issue too.  If you only feed the cut out honey back to the cut out hive and keep it separate from other hives the risk is much less.  You could also consume the cut out honey and let the hive have what they forage on.  Then the only risk is poison.  Most non beekeepers will poison before they call a beekeeper.

[2Sox]

I put all the cutout honey in my upright freezer to take care there is no moth issue. I seem to be doing okay.

The freezer does not kill the bacteria and viruses.  You could be priming a bomb in your apiary and if you sell off hives that might be an issue too.  If you only feed the cut out honey back to the cut out hive and keep it separate from other hives the risk is much less.  You could also consume the cut out honey and let the hive have what they forage on.  Then the only risk is poison.  Most non beekeepers will poison before they call a beekeeper.

Yes, I'm well aware of that. As I indicated, the freezing is only for the wax moths. (I treat with MAQs 2 or 3x a year.  Planning OAV next spring for the first time.)  But this is the S.O.P. for my operation and always has been since I got my rhythm in beekeeping going. Always had Nosema when my operation was upstate.  Never had it since I moved down here to the city.  Haven't a clue why.  I had all four of my colonies come out of winter last year doing just fine.  Never before had 100% survival rate for a winter.  Probably just luck.

The biggest problem I have here is the mosquito spraying the city does each summer. I screen in my bees until midday the next day and cover them with tarps the night of the spraying.

And I couldn't in good conscience consume or provide cutout honey for sale - unless it's absolutely pristine. And that doesn't happen often, if you are familiar with cutouts.  Mice feces and crushed bees are hard to avoid.

[Ben Framed]

I haven't had to feed sugar in ten years because I use cutout honey when necessary.

Mr 2Sox, does the freezer also kill any possiable varoa that might be in the cutout comb and honey? 
Thanks, Phillip

[BeeMaster2]

Freezing will kill the varroa, all stages.
Jim