How safe is copper naphthenate for bees?

[Beelab]

Does anyone have any links to discussions or research about copper naphthenate painted/soaked bee boxes? Apparently the inside of the box is treated as well.
It?s not accepted if you are producing certified organic honey. Why?

Just trying to understand the impact copper naphthenate can have on bees.

[Hops Brewster]

easy google search: copper naphthanate & bees  ,many results.

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/231548445_The_effect_of_wood_preservative_treatment_of_beehives_on_honey_bees_and_hive_products

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3799823/

https://www.coppercare.com/Documents/CuNapDocs/CuNap_Health_Risk.pdf

Etc., etc.

I call my honey "natural", "raw", or "unfiltered", but never "organic" because I don't have total control over the 18,000+ acres that the bees might forage, thus I don't know whether other parcels of land near me are maintained "organically".   In fact, I'm pretty certain that they are not.

[TheHoneyPump]

Just do not do it, do not use it.

Leave bee boxes completely natural, open grain untreated on the inside.  The bees will polish it, they will wax it, they will propolise it.  The bee treatment is better than anything else and is guaranteed to be good for the bees.

You may paint or stain or preserve the exterior surfaces however you see fit. Leave the interior to the bees.

If for some strange irrational reason you feel that the inside must be coated, then brush or roll it with hot melted beeswax.  Dipping and soaking the entire box in hot wax is a common acceptable method.

[Beelab]

Thanks for the replies, will do a proper google search.
All my own boxes are untreated inside, and outside they are either tung oiled or painted with water based house paint.
Just heard that some beekeepers swear by it and wondered about the impact on the bees.

[AR Beekeeper]

I have used copper naphthenate for about 15 years and I have never seen anything that lead me to believe there is any damage to the bees.  I do dip the boxes in the fall and allow them to dry in storage over the winter before putting them in service.  I know a number of beekeepers who use it on their boxes with good results, also. 

[Ben Framed]

I have used copper naphthenate for about 15 years and I have never seen anything that lead me to believe there is any damage to the bees.  I do dip the boxes in the fall and allow them to dry in storage over the winter before putting them in service.  I know a number of beekeepers who use it on their boxes with good results, also.

AR I would like to ask you a general question. How much longer do you estimate that the life of the box will last treating as opposed to non diping?  Thanks Phillip Hall

[Van, Arkansas, USA]

easy google search: copper naphthanate & bees  ,many results.

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/231548445_The_effect_of_wood_preservative_treatment_of_beehives_on_honey_bees_and_hive_products

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3799823/

https://www.coppercare.com/Documents/CuNapDocs/CuNap_Health_Risk.pdf

Etc., etc.



I call my honey "natural", "raw", or "unfiltered", but never "organic" because I don't have total control over the 18,000+ acres that the bees might forage, thus I don't know whether other parcels of land near me are maintained "organically".   In fact, I'm pretty certain that they are not.

18,000 acres, if I figured correctly that is 26 square miles, 640 acres to the sq mile, so I remember you have several locations, must be nice to have all that access.  My envy.

To my North is all water, so my bee access is reduced by one fourth of 2 square miles for my single apiary.  However my bees manage ok.  I have studied bees will not cross a large body of water, which in my case is 50,000 acres of lake.

[blackforest beekeeper]

I have used copper naphthenate for about 15 years and I have never seen anything that lead me to believe there is any damage to the bees.  I do dip the boxes in the fall and allow them to dry in storage over the winter before putting them in service.  I know a number of beekeepers who use it on their boxes with good results, also.

AR I would like to ask you a general question. How much longer do you estimate that the life of the box will last treating as opposed to non diping?  Thanks Phillip Hall

that`s a good question.

I guess, if you use a real "good" paint, they will last indefinitely if you redo it on a regular basis. of course the result is like a plastic box sort of. don`t know if the bees bother, I would.

As I do organic beekeeping, this is as natural as can be. So I use wood solely, often un-planed even. Most parts go untreated. They do fine for a VERY long time. Boxes that spend the winters outside I paint with raw linseed-oil. best to add some ground earth (pigments). also this has to be redone.
untreated boxes turn grey, they will do fine a long time.
most larger beekeepers I know don`t do anything with their boxes any more. Takes a lot of effort to paint or dip asf.

My pallets and screened bottoms are of larch-wood, untreated, which will last for many many years even if rained on.

all depends on the climate, of course.

to talk about the joints: if you paint "good" it doesn`t matter how the wood is fitted, as water won`t be able to enter anyway. So any "indoor" construction will work fine there.

[paus]

I just broke out my old work pocket calculator which was an extreme improvement  from when I carried a SLIDE RULE. If the bees fly 3 miles from their hive then they cover 18,095.62 acres.  If they o9nly fly 2 miles this calculates to 8,042.50 acres. 
Either one these covers an a extremely large range of possibilities for an inorganic encounter.

[Van, Arkansas, USA]

Paus, a slide rule, most folks will not know what that is.  Yes, I remember, for those that do not know, it?s a piece of wood or plastic without batteries, no start button, no screen, only numbers with sliding attachment.

[Ben Framed]

Mr Van, I am glad that you explained what a slide rule is !! J/k I have heard of them .

BlackForest  Thanks for your input,  I have been building my boxes from scratch. What I do is lay the boards out on saw horses even before I make the first cut. I use a Grayco sprayer and spray the paint on the facing, and the top and bottom ends that way to seal the edges from moisture once placed on the bottom board or stacked. I place 2 good coats. Once the cuts are made painting is has already been reduced to a minimum. All I have to do is brush of the outer cut area that is not protected. This should last for a good long time. But, if using the product that AR is using can increase at least 1/3 more years of use I'm interested. So my question still if out to Mr AR

AR I would like to ask you a general question. How much longer do you estimate that the life of the box will last treating as opposed to non diping?  Thanks Phillip Hall

[AR Beekeeper]

Ben Framed;  I don't know how long the CN will increase the life of a box, but the ones I dipped 15 years ago and were never re-dipped are still sound.  They usually are re-dipped after 5 to 8 years.

The mix I use is a 1 part CN concentrate to 5 parts solvent, and I soak the box for 3 days minimum.

If the box is painted after dipping it would need to dry for several weeks before painting.  I prefer to only soak in the CN.

[Ben Framed]

Ben Framed;  I don't know how long the CN will increase the life of a box, but the ones I dipped 15 years ago and were never re-dipped are still sound.  They usually are re-dipped after 5 to 8 years.

The mix I use is a 1 part CN concentrate to 5 parts solvent, and I soak the box for 3 days minimum.

If the box is painted after dipping it would need to dry for several weeks before painting.  I prefer to only soak in the CN.

Wow. That's amazing !! I doubt that painted boxes will last that long without getting some rot places in some areas? Plus you dont have the extra expense of paint! This is a good subject that is worth knowing..  Thanks AR for your response. 

[Ben Framed]

@ AR Beekeeper,  let me ask you. When you soak the box for three  days, do you mean totally submerged? If so do you have some type of vat or container that you have to sit these boxes in? And how do you keep them completely submerged? Or, do you submerge one half at a time and flip as needed?
Thanks, Phillip Hall "Ben Framed"