Nosemea question?

[Aroc]

 I have a suspicion that one of our hives might be suffering from nosemea. The first somewhat warm day yesterday brought all hives activity. It was only 30? but they were still flying nonetheless. One in particular has an unusual amount of bee poop out front.  It?s not going to warm up enough for us to feed sugar syrup for several more weeks. Is there any sort of treatment that can be done now?

[TheHoneyPump]

First off, advice against treating for nosema without a confirmed diagnosis.  Take samples and check under a microscope.
Nowadays, you will often find that a bunch of poop does not mean nosema at all.

[van from Arkansas]

HP, is there a treatment for Nosema cerena?  Please correct my spelling if needed.??

[TheHoneyPump]

I am not aware of proven approved prescribed treatment for nosema ceranae.  Though, beekeepers being beekeepers there is probably some backwoods concoction cooked up somewhere out there.

[Ben Framed]

I am not aware of proven approved prescribed treatment for nosema ceranae.  Though, beekeepers being beekeepers there is probably some backwoods concoction cooked up somewhere out there.

Is there anyone here that might have a "concoction cooked up somewhere out there." as I quote HP. I for one would like to be informed.   I do know that there are several beekeepers on videos which use essential oils for this problem, these guys are breeders at that. But,I have never heard of any of them claiming that this will work for both types of Nosema. But at the same time they have all, of whom I have studied, state, Nosema period. So ?? Hum....

[van from Arkansas]

[attachment=0][/attachment]

Electron pic of ceranae:

Mr. Ben, I believe HP is our forum expert on nosema.  I know of no one else that scopes and does spore counts as HP.

Nosema ceranae is just plain weird.  Check out the above pic:  has 6 legs,[i think they are legs] filaments, looks like a mite, 1000 times smaller than a mite, reproduces like bacteria with mother cell dividing into two daughter cells but also reproduces spores like a fungus which it is,,, well sorta.  Ceranae is classified as a fungus but unlike any I have ever seen.  Just plain weird, breaks all the typical fungus criteria.  Known to infect honey bees only with similar fungi bombi that infect only bumble bees.

Under a typical light microscope, nosema likes like translucent jelly beans, but unbelievably tiny as 400X is required for contrast.

[Ben Framed]

No doubt that Mr Claude is one of our premier experts here, so I listen closely to an expert as himself and Mr Bush as well as others here. whom I have confidence in. Even Mr Claude, (HP) left room for the possiability that "I am not aware of proven approved prescribed treatment for nosema ceranae.  Though, beekeepers being beekeepers there is probably some backwoods concoction cooked up somewhere out there."
So I ask an honest question to an honest statement which was furnished by one of our experts.  To obtain knodlege, we must ask honest, legitimate questions. We must be inquisitive don't you agree? The picture that you posted is an awesome one. And I appreciate your thought and update on this problem.  The beekeeper of 2019 has much more to deal with in the way of pest and other ailments that was not present just a few years ago, even though this one might have been. I am glad that you and some of the more experienced beekeepers had the opportunity to enjoy the golden days of beekeeping just a couple generations ago.. must have been awesome! Tell us about it !!

[van from Arkansas]

Phil, you ask the right questions, you are way ahead of the typical beek with a single year of experience, I mean WAY ahead.

I deal with nosema by requeening, apis which leaves visible drown splatter and ceranae is just a big mystery to me as I know of no visable or signs for detection.  I clean hive bodies that have splatter with vinegar which I read kills the spores.  In 2018, I saw no issues with nosema, in 2017 I did have splatter, cleaned and requeened.  I just discovered a dead out in my apiary that had small amounts of brown splatter on the inner cover????

Certainly other beeks on this forum have relevant knowledge as well, regarding nosema, but only HP is serious enough to scope and count spores to my knowledge.

As a kid, in Houston Texas, beekeeping in the 1960?s was a piece of cake.  Let bees alone and extract honey, no problems that I ever detected.  Never lost a hive, never saw abscond, never treated, never a problem, just place a hive within reach of flowers and nature took care of everything.  I do remember seeing my bees dragging out one wax moth larva once.  Honey bees were completely self supporting without need of any intervention.  The 10 frame langstrof deep with one super and full of bees delivered was $35.00 that my Dad kindly took care of the $.  The original hive was painted silver.  I have not seen a silver hive body since.

[van from Arkansas]

Nosema apis pic from the net.

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[Ben Framed]

Thank you Mr Van for the kind words of encouragement. Thinking of the sixties beekeeping days leave me in wonder!  I can't imagine not having to worry wirh the mites that we have today, let alone Small Hive Beetles.  I will say, as I have said before I am greatful to each of you, which have taken the time to answer my many many questions and the time to teach me,'as well as others here. Borrowing your words,
Blessings

[BeeMaster2]

Ben,
Nosema apis is no longer a problem since nosema ceranae came on the scene. I believe n ceranae may kill/eat n apis. I used to have a micro scope with a 400 x power. We would remove the abdomens of about 10 bees and grind them up and put the slurry under the microscope. You could count the number of ceranae in a ring to determine the infestation load.
Jim

[Ben Framed]

Nosema apis pic from the net.

[attachment=0][/attachment]

Wow, what a mess!

[Ben Framed]

Ben,
Nosema apis is no longer a problem since nosema ceranae came on the scene. I believe n ceranae may kill/eat n apis. I used to have a micro scope with a 400 x power. We would remove the abdomens of about 10 bees and grind them up and put the slurry under the microscope. You could count the number of ceranae in a ring to determine the infestation load.
Jim

You are a very knowledgeable man Jim. That is very interesting. We are blessed to have you here! Let me ask you. How long have you been keeping bees? 🐝

[Ben Framed]

"Under a typical light microscope, nosema likes like translucent jelly beans, but unbelievably tiny as 400X is required for contrast."

Mr Van sir, I am looking into this deeper, and you are right this is weird fungus. Looks like a live (something).

[BeeMaster2]

Ben,
Nosema apis is no longer a problem since nosema ceranae came on the scene. I believe n ceranae may kill/eat n apis. I used to have a micro scope with a 400 x power. We would remove the abdomens of about 10 bees and grind them up and put the slurry under the microscope. You could count the number of ceranae in a ring to determine the infestation load.
Jim

You are a very knowledgeable man Jim. That is very interesting. We are blessed to have you here! Let me ask you. How long have you been keeping bees? 🐝

I started in 2010. My wife bought me 2 Beekeeping books for my birthday and within a month I had 2 hives.
Jim

[Ben Framed]

Ben,
Nosema apis is no longer a problem since nosema ceranae came on the scene. I believe n ceranae may kill/eat n apis. I used to have a micro scope with a 400 x power. We would remove the abdomens of about 10 bees and grind them up and put the slurry under the microscope. You could count the number of ceranae in a ring to determine the infestation load.
Jim

You are a very knowledgeable man Jim. That is very interesting. We are blessed to have you here! Let me ask you. How long have you been keeping bees? 🐝

I started in 2010. My wife bought me 2 Beekeeping books for my birthday and within a month I had 2 hives.
Jim

It didn't take you long to become addicted. 😊 That was a fast transition! My first hives were aquired by the cutout route. I have read some of your cut out topics here.

[TheHoneyPump]

The microscope is an essential tool in the beekeeper?s toolbox. It is part of the pest and disease management program. Much of what you would do with your own scope, and alot more, is done by your area inspector and supporting lab. All you have to do is ask them. The difference is time to results. There is of course delay to sending samples out. As opposed to putting your own eyes on the microbes in the truck in the beeyard.

Have been using the scope for 40+ years. Always amazed at what is seen and often the results taking us in a different corrective direction than what one would first think and do without the data.  In the early years we counted spores. That did not last long.  We look for diagnosis levels of:  -none, -some, -ohoh now what, -kill it now.

With regards to nosema. I am admittedly a studious follower of Randy Oliver?s nosema series on scientificbeekeeping.com    It is is upwards of 17+ articles now and ongoing. I encourage everyone to go there and absorb.

My experience and comfort level with the most troublesome little critters can be summarized as:
- nosema apis, calm casual walk in the park
- nosema apis+ceranae. Frustrating. Lagging colonies. Survive but do not really thrive. Appear as lazy bees. Constantly shows potential in showing of a good brood nest. Yet never really gets going. Stays same all summer or dwindles ever so slowly.
- nosema ceranae, low to moderate infection.  Business as usual, though overall production forecast is going to be down for the year. 
- nosema ceranae, heavy infection. Where did all my bees go?!!!
- varroa mite.  My mood gets edgy in spring and fall. Yet calm overall
- varroa mite + either nosema.  Hive/Apiary Catastrophe. Dead bees walking. Recovery impossible. End the suffering. Terminate now.

Nosema is a gut parasite that sucks energy and efficiency out of the bee and by extension the overall super-organism that we call the hive.

General guidelines of managing this pest, the basics, are:
- keep the hive well fed. Ensure it is never ever food stressed. Prompt application of protein supplements and syrup.
- dead out equipment needs to be quarantined and handled as contagious, which it is. Clean in a quarantined area away from other equipment.  Clean over a drop sheet or tarp.  When done roll up the tarp with everything on it and the bags of scrapings.  Setup a barrel or pit and burn it all.
- cleaning tools go into a bucket of cleaning vinegar. This is double/triple strength white vinegar. Eg Alleys. Found on the shelf at your hardware store.
- cleaned equipment is stacked, shrink wrapped, and fumigated with acetic acid (vinegar), same stuff, Alleys. Extreme infections, equipment is mist sprayed. Set on sunny side of the building and left for at least a week. It can then be reused.
- if radiation services are available and accessible, highly recommend to setup a program to cycle a percentage of your equipment through it on a rolling annual basis. This eliminates the countless more and other microbes and chemicals that affect hive health.

I hope that is fairly straight forward and clear.

Hope that helps!

[TheHoneyPump]

Having said all that and getting back to the dysentery.  A poopy hive in does NOT mean nosema.  Most often the issues is prolonged confinement combined with old or poor quality feed. The bees have belly-aches because the food they have is tainted. Aka mild food poisoning.

Like stomaching a toasted slice of moldy bread or cutting a slice off of fresh loaf out of the oven.

Always ensure the food the bees have is of good quality before thinking they are diseased.  If you have a scope, and a keen eye, it may be possible to pickup on what is in the food causing them problems.

Alot to take in.  I will stop there.

Happy beekeeping!

[CoolBees]

HP - that is outstandingly well written! Thank you for taking the time!

A question - in the case of nosema apis+ceranae - I have a hive that matches your description. 7 med frames of brood at every inspection. A good nectar flow has been on since early Jan, and all other hives are booming. Yet this hive has seemingly less bees each month. Will re-Queening solve the problem?

I had planned on re-Queening this hive as soon as I've grown some queens (which has been delayed due to 7 weeks of rain and low 50'sF temps). This week it warms to 70 deg F and I am planning to make several swarm-prevention split. Queens would of course be ready in 4 weeks or so.

I've also thought of removing (and freezing) the brood, killing the 2ND yr queen, and introducing a frame of eggs - using this hive as a starter Nuc.

However - if the disease would be passed down, all of this would be pointless. Assuming of course, that this is in fact the problem.

Your thoughts on this?

Thank you
Alan

[CoolBees]

HP - I should also add:

I thought the problem was with the queen. This hive is the 2nd genetic line that I have. This hive was started from a frame of brood in March 2018. It climbed to 3 med 8 frame boxes by fall. Nov showed it to have the highest mite count of all 4 hives. I treated OAV thru Dec. All other hives have bounced back amazingly well! In truth this is the 1st time in my 4 years (attempting beekeeping) that I've entered the spring with healthy hives - and it has been a shock to see how fast they can grow. All but this one ... I had assumed the queen was poorly mated, or had other health issues, but the brood patterns are solid - wall to wall. But in 2 months time - my other hives have gone from a few frames to 4 full boxes each, and this one has yet to start filling the 2nd box ....