Foundationless Frames With Aid of Fishingline

[CoolBees]

Thanks Alan, I just sent a PM to you, unrelated to this topic. (It was an answer to you form one you sent to me a day or so ago)  I didn't mean to wait this long to answer.

No worries Phillip - no worries.

[Ben Framed]

Cao - they can really make a mess when they get going can't they.

My 1st yr, my buddy gave a 2 deeps, but only 10 frames for the bottom box. He said he'd bring more frames once they started to expand. He and I weren't on the same page with the bees. When we tried to open the upper deep, we had a problem - it was completely full of comb attached to the lid, walls, and frames below. What a mess they can make, and quickly too!

Bees seemed happy though.

Wow! Reminded me of when I was hanging out with my uncle when I was a teenager. A wood duck box packed full of what you two just described!! A mess and those  little black bees were furious !! Haa haa 
And to top it off I was ill equipped!! 😁😊. They tore me up!!

[CoolBees]

Phillip - I said I saw him put them in. But I never saw what it looked like 6 months later. 

[Ben Framed]

Phillip - I said I saw him put them in. But I never saw what it looked like 6 months later. 

 

[CoolBees]

Wow! Reminded me of when I was hanging out with my uncle when I was a teenager. A wood duck box packed full of what you two just described!! A mess and those  little black bees were furious !! Haa haa 
And to top it off I was ill equipped!! . They tore me up!!

you know what they say Phillip, "what doesn't kill you makes you stronger ... except bears: bears will definitely kill you" 

[Ben Framed]

Wow! Reminded me of when I was hanging out with my uncle when I was a teenager. A wood duck box packed full of what you two just described!! A mess and those  little black bees were furious !! Haa haa 
And to top it off I was ill equipped!! . They tore me up!!

you know what they say Phillip, "what doesn't kill you makes you stronger ... except bears: bears will definitely kill you" 

Haa haa 😊😁

[StraferX]

Hello from West Virginia I am a new Beek with a new hive, also purchased 2 packages of bees coming from Wolf Creek late April and had a couple questions. The hive I purchased has 2 deeps and 2 mediums and I have decided to split this hive into 2 seperate units and use the deeps as the base and mediums the rest of the way upwards, your plans change once you get a hive in your hands. I have decided to go all natural as possible.

It appears that general consensus is to use a few foundations inbetween foundationless frames to guide the new bees.

1.My question is it really necessary use a wire/string support for medium frames?
2. If bees build top to bottom then what is best practice or most successful, support wires/skewers side to side or top to bottom?
3. The hive I purchased the mediums are not built correctly and do not lay flat leaving 3/16 gap in opposing corners, I have belt sanded most of this warp out yet still small gap. Will the bees take care of this by filling it in. I will from now on be building my own hives.
4. At what point should you introduce narrow frame space as described on Mr Bush website?

Well that is all my questions relevant to this thread, I know I will have a ton more. Thanks in advance.

[BeeMaster2]

Welcome to Beemaster.
I run all mediums and I put foundation less frames in my swarm traps. The frames have a waxed wooden strip in the top slot. Works real well with no wires and as long as they connect the comb to the bottom of the frame I can run them through my motorized extractor.
The narrow frames are for the brood chamber. Start using them any time. You put 11 frames in a 10 frame box or 9 frames in a 8 frame box.
Jim Altmiller

[CoolBees]

Welcome to Beemaster.

Here are my answers:

#1 - what Jim said
#2 - I don't use any supports in foundationless mediums. As Jim said, don't try extraction unless they have attached the comb to the frame all the way around.
#3 - they will fill in gaps eventually. Be careful about sanding down the boxes. If you reduce the internal beespace, it might cause additional problems.
#4 - what Jim said.



Alan

[Ben Framed]

I am a new beekeeper, all the advice that I give is only what I have personally experienced, which is limited.  haa haaa. I will, time to time repeat what someone else, whom I trust, has told me. But when I do repeat, I always try to remember to give credit to whom is deserved. I only have deeps at the present time. I am not shooting for honey this season but intend to make splits, splits, splits. My goal this season is to produce as many hives as possiable going into the fall, along with good frames of extra drawn comb going into the winter, as to be used as brood comb.  Several of my frames are from rubber banded cut out comb. Most of this was black comb. I intend to melt most of this replacing by slowly incorporating new drawn out frames. Thus the added reinforcement is a plus for me. Fishing line as this method is working superbly. I started last spring via, doing cutouts. I have been at it almost a year. Good luck to you and your bees.
Phillip

[StraferX]

Thank you for the replys, this site is chock full of good information.

[Michael Bush]

>The sole purpose of the wire or line is to provide support to the wax so the frame does not blow apart in the extractor.

If you read all the old ABC & XYZ of Bee Culture editions over the years, wiring was always for one purpose, which is keeping foundation from sagging.  People were extracting before and after wiring was invented and I can't find ANY reference to it being invented for the purpose of extraction.  Maybe there is one, but I have not seen it.

[yes2matt]

Some of these guys have seen me handle frames a little ... clumsily.  :)  so I like fishing line in my deep frames that I intend for brood. I use 50lb test because it is stiffer when I pull it taut. It's in there so that if I flop or drop or bang a frame, especially if they haven't attached the sides amd bottom yet, I don't break the comb out of the frame. Especially when it's hot and soft.

In medium frames that I intend for honey frames I use either plastic foundation to extract or none for cut-crush-strain.

[ed/La.]

I do not use foundation only starter strips. All deep frames and do not use anything for extra support. If you hold the frame in the correct direction even the newest comb will not break loose. Top bar hives have no way of adding support and they hold up fine. I have put a nail through the side holes as support and bees incorporate into come but not necessary. I don't have time to run wire or line through 100s of frames. To each their own. For starter strips I have tried everything I can think of. 1 inch strips or so. Wax, plastic,wood,thick paper, wooden chop sticks etc. I even tried electric wire stapled to top. My new frame design has no grooves. Speeds up frame building but makes starter strip installation challenging.Stapled wood is easiest. I might make a jig to do cast in place wax starter strips. If satisfied with results I will make  several and cast 10 at a time. Anything to speed things up and cut costs. If

[Dallasbeek]

Ben Framed,

How long are you going to tell people you are a beginning beekeeper? You have been on this site about two years, Phillip, so I would say you are now an experienced beekeeper.  Not at the level of idee, of course, but somewhat experienced, so I encourage you to have more confidence.

[Ben Framed]

Ben Framed,

How long are you going to tell people you are a beginning beekeeper? You have been on this site about two years, Phillip, so I would say you are now an experienced beekeeper.  Not at the level of idee, of course, but somewhat experienced, so I encourage you to have more confidence.

  Haha! Thank you Dallas. What you say is true, I have been here for at least two years. I joined to read and learn from from you folks, trying to learn all that I could anticipating the day that I could, myself, have my very own bees.  I can't remember if I posted here before or after I had my first hive, but it was about that time that I did first post. I was interested, in bees well before that, back in 2008 my curiosity was really sparked. I came here then, in my spare time, and read some. But was not interested in joining because I knew that I wasn't going to have time for bees anytime soon. I did drift away, but alway was thinking of bees!  Those were also good times here. Folks in particular which stood out to me was Brian D Bray and Michael Bush and not necessary in that order. In my mind they are both legends. There was another fellow here which had a picture of Uncle Joe, ( the fellow on the old Petty Coat Junction reruns), I am sorry that I don't remember his name. Also a grouchy type fellow from Finland. There were others also. and some of you are still here as well as Mr Bush!   
  But really, I am just a beginner. I have almost completed my first year with my own bees. In this year, I have packed in a lot of learning thanks to all of you here. In every comment, I find knowledge, weather it is right or wrong. If it is right y'all support it. If it is wrong y'all make it right by calling it out.  So I have decided, that any question, that I may have, is worth asking.  I would like to encourage all new beekeepers here, to absolutely post you questions. We all benefit. Every question posted is relevant.
  As far as being as knowledgeable as Iddee and some others, as you, here, I doubt that I will ever make it to that level!  I am happy that they are here to help us (beginners) along the way! I really like Iddee, he cuts through the chase and tells it like it is, weather it is here or the coffee house! 
  I thank you Dallas for you encouragement. To be recognized by my peers as yourself, and Van as my being more than a beginner, is quite a complement, which I don't take lightly. My first year anniversary of keeping bees is coming up soon, or may have already came. I will check and see when I did my first cutout and confirm. Anyway, after my first completed year, I will stop the beginner talk. Again, thank you Dallas for all your help and encouragement as well as all the rest of you here on Beemaster. 

Sincerely, Phillip 
 

 

[Michael Bush]

I've always had a lot of respect for people who say they are beginners and then you find out they've had bees for several years.  I'm a beginner.  I've only had bees for 45 years and there is SO much left to learn...

[Ben Framed]

I've always had a lot of respect for people who say they are beginners and then you find out they've had bees for several years.  I'm a beginner.  I've only had bees for 45 years and there is SO much left to learn...

Haa haa 😁  You might have been a beginner 44 years ago.....  welcome to the intermediate class ..😁😁😁🐝

[Dallasbeek]

Phillip, my point, really was to have confidence in answering the questions your experience qualifies you to answer.  As Mr. Bush points out, we are all still learning.  Often, I put forward a possible answer and invite the better informed to join in, since I lack the experience to frame an answer in the absolute.  I think that is what you mean to do when you answer a question but say you are a beginner.  I did not mean to put you down for saying that.  My intent was to help build your confidence, because from what I have observed, you have grown a great deal since your early days here with us.

Someimes we get somebody that joins the forum who obviouly think they know everything.  I just hang back and watch what they say.  Once in a while, they turn out to be very well-informed.  Other times, they are full of hot air.  Regardless, they deserve a respectful reception unless they turn out to have some kind of intent to cause disruption or such. 

[Ben Framed]

Phillip, my point, really was to have confidence in answering the questions your experience qualifies you to answer.  As Mr. Bush points out, we are all still learning.  Often, I put forward a possible answer and invite the better informed to join in, since I lack the experience to frame an answer in the absolute.  I think that is what you mean to do when you answer a question but say you are a beginner.  I did not mean to put you down for saying that.  My intent was to help build your confidence, because from what I have
observed, you have grown a great deal since your early days here with us.

Someimes we get somebody that joins the forum who obviouly think they know everything.  I just hang back and watch what they say.  Once in a while, they turn out to be very well-informed.  Other times, they are full of hot air.  Regardless, they deserve a respectful reception unless they turn out to have some kind of intent to cause disruption or such.

Thanks Dallas. I fully understand your meaning and I thank you for your encouragement. As you have probabaly guessed, I do not want to lead anyone wrong with bad advise. So I give it wirh a "grain of salt" (beginner) but you are right. I will speak with more confidence, and I have the assurance that if I do give bad advise, some of you seasoned guys and gals will not let me lead someone on the wrong path or in error. Thanks again, Phillip