Split went terribly wrong, is this common?

[kace069]

So I made a split approximately 3 weeks ago? I think. Had two funerals last week and drank alot so kinda lost track of time. Anyways
I am still kind of new at this, and this was my first split. This colony was very strong and already had about 6 supercedure cells, It was also time to reverse brood chambers. So I decided to do it all at once. I took the bottom super full of bees and moved it to a new bottom board. I split up brood,honey, and pollen between the two. I never found the queen but was sure she was there and in the bottom super. I then put a new deep on each one with fresh frames of foundation and closed them up.
1 week later. Everything looks fine. I didn't disturb the colonies to badly I just wanted to make sure that they didn't reform into one colony every thing looked great.
About 2 weeks later, aka yesterday. No brood, no eggs, all but 1 queen cell open. Both colonies took sugar syrup again, before the split they weren't eating any.
So it looks to me that just about every queen just hatched and flew off! Didn't even bother to kill the others. I had flying drones.
Now what do I do. Is it to late for me to order queens? Just wait them out? Hope they requeen as was the original plan?
This was a complete bummer! I thought I was getting out of buying bees this year. Not sure but this colony looked as if it was getting ready to swarm before the split. Thought I was saving myself of a headache of a swarming colony 20 miles away.

[Finsky]

Both colonies took sugar syrup again, before the split they weren't eating any.
.

You have summer and you are feeding syrup to hives????

You tried to stop swarming?

It is done this way:

When you see that bees have capped queen cells they are sure to swarm.

Move hive 10 feet away.
Put new hive on old site. Put one larva frame and queen and other frames foundations.  Bees fly themselves to new hive.

New hive loose it's swarming fever and the old part of hive (normally) is not able to swarm because it has lost it's swarming  bees.

Concept is that when main yield begins, you put hive parts together. So you get normal yield. If you do not join them, you hardly get honey.

It is better to get new commercial queen. They are not so easy to swarm.
.

[kace069]

I'm in Michigan its just starting to think about summer here. I only Fed them a couple of quarts earlier in the spring and then gave them a week after the split before I gave them another quart each.  The last couple of weeks we were lucky to hit 60 during the day and it was starting to dip into the low 30's at night. A 70 degree day thrown in there every now and then. I probably have another 3 weeks or so before a real flow starts here.

Kinda confused about your line here finsky. Concept is that when main yield begins, you put hive parts together.
I wanted to have two colonies and prevent a swarm.
I couldn't move the colonies 10 ft apart. I just put the new one up in the old location and turned the old one  so the entrance faced west instead of south where it orginaly sat. I put a branch in front of the old location to confuse foragers hoping they would even them selves out.
Like I said my intention was to have 2 colonies. Honey crop isn't extermely important to me, expanding my yard is my main objective. I have a colony here at home I can get honey out of this season.
I only fed to help with wax production and the shortage of foragers. I was hoping to get a crop out of them, but it is still pretty early in the season for me, I have until september or october before the flow is over.

[Finsky]

Kinda confused about your line here finsky. Concept is that when main yield begins, you put hive parts together. .

Big hive gather better honey than 2 small. I put 2 weak hive together when main yiled begins (canola).

Small hive is 3-4 boxes.   3+3 boxes is good.

4+4 +4 = 6+6 box hives.

I wanted to have two colonies and prevent a swarm..

If your swarm left, you need not any more prevent swarming.

I couldn't move the colonies 10 ft apart. I just put the new one up in the old location and turned the old one  so the entrance faced west instead of south where it orginaly sat. I put a branch in front of the old location .

That is OK

Like I said my intention was to have 2 colonies. Honey crop isn't extermely important to me, .

The aim of beekeping is get honey. If you dont want honey, it is same how you keep bees.  I need red line. Witout it I may do what ever someone say do do do and try try try all nonsence what world may find ...

You may keep you big hive and it's purpose is to get honey.
Then you keep 3 frame nuc which grow slowly along summer.

When honey summer is about over, you take from big hive some brood frames and give them to nuc. So you get whole box full of brood and a good hive for winter.

You may too devide your big hive to 2 parts and you put 2 laying queen inside. So you have 3 hives.

You may do that and get honey too.  Next spring you have difficulties. You need combs and bees are slow to build them in spring. So you need this summer strong hive which make you new combs.

Too planning - is it? ..

Beginners are eager to split their hives... You win a lot if you get good egg laying queens from commercial beekeeper. Swarm queens are not good at all, what ever those natural beekeepers say :P .
.

[TwT]

So I made a split approximately 3 weeks ago? I think. Had two funerals last week and drank alot so kinda lost track of time. Anyways
I am still kind of new at this, and this was my first split. This colony was very strong and already had about 6 supercedure cells, It was also time to reverse brood chambers. So I decided to do it all at once. I took the bottom super full of bees and moved it to a new bottom board. I split up brood,honey, and pollen between the two. I never found the queen but was sure she was there and in the bottom super. I then put a new deep on each one with fresh frames of foundation and closed them up.
1 week later. Everything looks fine. I didn't disturb the colonies to badly I just wanted to make sure that they didn't reform into one colony every thing looked great.
About 2 weeks later, aka yesterday. No brood, no eggs, all but 1 queen cell open. Both colonies took sugar syrup again, before the split they weren't eating any.
So it looks to me that just about every queen just hatched and flew off! Didn't even bother to kill the others. I had flying drones.
Now what do I do. Is it to late for me to order queens? Just wait them out? Hope they requeen as was the original plan?
This was a complete bummer! I thought I was getting out of buying bees this year. .

it can sometimes take a new queen after she hatches up to 2 weeks to make her mating flight depending on weather, then it could take her another 1-3 weeks before she gets to laying good.... if the young queen is there and you put a bought queen in the hive the bee's will kill the queen you paid for. a good way to tell is to add a frames of eggs and young brood and the bee's will tell you if they have a queen in a few days, if they are queenless they will make queen cells out of the frame you put in, if they dont majke queen cells you have a young queen in the hive and she just need time...

[Brian D. Bray]

My question is why did he split a hive with supercedure cells?  Supercedure cells usually indicates a failing queen or a hives displeasure with a queen.  Supercedure cells also means keep your eye on me.   I can understand, to a degree, splitting when swarm cells are showing but even that is a gamble.

Finsky's right, 1 strong hive will out produce 4 marginal ones.  Aso build your nuc's late in the summer and over winter them.  How the new hives winter and which queens are doing the best job will show you which hives to focus on for maximum yield.

[kace069]

Here is my strategy.
1. I don't have any nuc boxes. That would have been my plan of action, and I didn't have time to order one, if this colony swarmed I would have missed it and miss the chance to double the size of this yard.
2. I probably mis spoke, a bit. There were both superscedure cells and queen cells.  This queen was excellent in my opinion. When I first open it in march I had 1.5 deeps of bees in it and by the end of march I had 2 deeps of bees and frames full of brood and eggs. She was laying just as fast as the workers could empty honey out of cells.
3. I have a colony at my home, One I can watch and have draw out frames, I have 15 supers and only one with drawn comb. I can get as much honey as I need at the moment. Most important to me is to expand my yard as quickly and most effeciently as possible. I want to go into this winter with as many strong colonies as possible. Next year they will make way more honey. The one I had here at home I did not expect to make it through the winter, the hive I split went into winter with no doubt in my mind of faliure.
I work part time for a commercial bee keeper and he lets his coloines requeen as often as possible. He has already bought and went through 200 queens this year.  Unfortunately I missed the chance to go out with him for the spring build up. I hate to call him and bug him I know how busy he is, but he is always ready to help. I probably won't see him for another week and I am getting nervous.
I want to go from 2 colonies to 5 this year. I know I will have to buy some bees but I don't want to buy any more than I have to. This is why I am so eager to split.

[Finsky]

Most important to me is to expand my yard as quickly and most effeciently as possible.

So do it so: Raise a big hive, about 6 boxes.

Split it into 6 parts and good queens inside. You may split it to 10 if you want.
.

[Michael Bush]

>About 2 weeks later, aka yesterday. No brood, no eggs, all but 1 queen cell open. Both colonies took sugar syrup again, before the split they weren't eating any.
So it looks to me that just about every queen just hatched and flew off! Didn't even bother to kill the others. I had flying drones.

I never expect to have a laying queen after a split until 24 days at the EARLIEST.  It could be 30 days or so if the weather is bad for flying to mate.

http://www.bushfarms.com/beesmath.htm

[kace069]

Thanks Micheal that is what I wanted to hear. I didn't know it would take that long. The only other things is that I lost original queens somewhere. I have never found a queen so I am always looking for eggs. I just can't spot her. I guess I just need to go out to my queen right colony and spen an hour if it takes me that long to find the queen and get used to seeing her.

[Brian D. Bray]

If you need help on finding your queen there are 2 things you can try.
1. use a flashlight on the brood comb to help spot the eggs which look like miniature grains of rice standing on end in the bottom of the cell.  This works good on a cloudy day too.
2.  It's been my observation, which I 1st learned from my mentor over forty years ago, is that a queen has a favorite place in the hive.  When the hive is opened that is where the queen heads for.  I find the queen most often on frame 3 or 4 or 7 or 8 in the upper broodbox if one is in use.  marking the frame you find the queen with a Q will speed up finding her in the future.

[kace069]

There is a good old timer tip I have never heard before Brian thanks alot. I will keep that in mind. The queens favorite spot.

[Finsky]

The queens favorite spot.

Never herad!

Mostly I find queen in brood area where is consentration of  bees between  two frame gaps. Queen is good  to know that you do not squeeze it.  Queen is uasully on frames where new bees are emerging and there is free cells to lay eggs.

If you use smoke before you lift frames queen may escape down or to sides. Some queens hidden herself.

[Michael Bush]

http://www.bushfarms.com/beesqueenspotting.htm

[TwT]

thats the first time I have ever heard or read about a queen having a favorite spot!!!!! mt queens are alway scattered and the best way I know to find her is to look for the eggs in the cells,,,, I'm not say she might not have a favorite spot but I have never paid attention to this.....

[Brian D. Bray]

You don't have to believe me but I can report that 've used that method of finding queens for over 40 years.  It seldom fails.  I used to win the queen catching contests the Northwest Beekeepers Association in NW Washington had every summer (One of the members had a 10 acre farm at Big Lake east of Mount Vernon, WA where we had our annual picnic).  I won hands down against all comer's, kid or adult.  By the time I was 14 they would only let me compete in the adult division and, as stated, I still won.
Just because you might not have heard it doesn't mean it doesn't or can't work.  Keep some records and find out for yourself.

To MB:  Spotting the queens was easy, need to get some pictures with the bees hiding the queen a little more.