Building My Own Equipment as an ABSOLUTE Beginner

[The15thMember]

As I mentioned on Alan's thread about lessons from 2019 and goals for 2020, one of my goals this year is to start learning how to build some of my own equipment, specifically boxes, to save some money.  The problem: I have ZERO knowledge about woodworking, and I mean ZERO.  It's just not the kind of thing I've ever done because it's not something I am naturally skilled at; I'm not artistic or good with spatial reasoning or figuring out how things work without a manual.  I am first and foremost a book-learner, and my problem solving skills in this area are extremely bad.  I also unfortunately don't know anyone who knows how to work with wood either.  The hands-on help I do have is a father who has a basic man's understanding of tools (if that makes sense) and can build simple things with the help of a plan, and I have an artistic sister who is more naturally inclined in this direction (for example, she built a hay rack for her goats without any plans or anything).  So, with this background information in mind, what would you recommend as a first step to learning how to at least build my own boxes?  Book recommendations, YouTube videos/channels, plain old advice, detailed step-by-step instructions, whatever; any and all advice is welcome.  To quote the movie "Margin Call", just remember to "speak to me as you would a 2-year-old or a golden retriever", because I'm a total beginner.               

[van from Arkansas]

Hello Member:

I need to know a few things for my own reason.

How many boxes do you wish to have.  Be specific with size such as: 10 frame or 8, deeps or supers[what deep].  Frames with foundation or without, split or grove, what type bottoms, what type tops.

Making frames would required a skilled carpenter as well as specific equipment.

Please NO personal information, this is a public forum.  Just answer above with respect to bee hives.
Blessings
Van

[The15thMember]

Hello Member:

I need to know a few things for my own reason.

How many boxes do you wish to have.  Be specific with size such as: 10 frame or 8, deeps or supers[what deep].  Frames with foundation or without, split or grove, what type bottoms, what type tops.

Please NO personal information, this is a public forum.  Just answer above with respect to bee hives.
Blessings
Van

I use mostly 8 frame mediums, split top bars, no foundation, bottom bars don't really matter to me, and migratory covers.  How many boxes do I need?  Well, I have 4 hives now, I'd like to expand to 6-8 next year, and I do have some mediums unassembled still in the garage, so . . . a rough estimate would be like 10.  I'm not necessarily expecting to be able to make my equipment for this upcoming year though, I'd just like to start learning how so that I can do so in the future.   

Making frames would required a skilled carpenter as well as specific equipment.

Neither of which I have access to, so definitely beyond my goals at this point.  What I'd really like to start with is just the mediums. 

[gww]

I used this plan to build my stuff.
https://beesource.com/build-it-yourself/10-frame-langstroth-beehive-barry-birkey/

The key to building boxes is the inside measurements.    I have used odd thickness boards and all kinds of corners including just nailing boards together with plain edges.  Just try and get the inside right so frames fit and bee space is correct.  I use a table saw and two cuts to make a frame rest but have made traps with just an extra piece of plywood or board nailed on each end to give a frame rest.  You have to make the box a little longer to do this and it makes the box heavy but is easy.  One other super important thing is to get your cuts square.  If you don't, the box will not sit flat after be put together.  In the end, the bees don't care as much as I do.  I have used boxes that don't sit flat and don't like it but have never had a hive die because of it.  I am better at building now than when I first started. 

Watching you tube videos and having a plan to build from has helped me a lot.  A table saw helps a lot and that is all I use but I could build boxes with a circular saw.  Table saw is better though.  I have die the sides with finger joints but now never take the time for them cause the boxes seem to work fine with out them.  I do not glue.  I just use brads now but have used nails and screws.  The brads are faster if you have a compressor and screws are most expensive to work with.  I don't use glue because it just cost too much and works with out it unless you move the hives alot.  Drywall screws and some brads will rust over time and break.
I hope some of this helps you,
Cheers
gww

[beesonhay465]

i have built all my equipment in the past and have all the necessary equipment however i will not build any frames again they are not worth the time it takes. its cheaper to buy.
i would recommend that you buy a deep and a medium frame to know that you are making the boxes the right size. i wish you the best and i will say that wood working is a skill you can carry as a hobby into old age. 1936 til now  bought a wood lathe at 14. there are lots of instructions and specs for hives on the net . download and print.

[FloridaGardener]

I get the enjoyable feeling that I'm "building" boxes and frames when I'm just assembling them. 
The cost of clear pine wood is so high that it's cheaper to buy pre-cut, pre-drilled, flat-packed hive bodies.  Cutting a tightly fitted  cross-notched corner is not beginning carpentry, in my opinion.
I like exterior 1-5/8" screws instead of nails, for hive bodies. And part of "building" is painting.

I have however been building screened bottom boards, covers, and ekes, which are more economical to make than buy.  I recommend a chop saw for precision cuts.  I use a battery powered Ryobi nailer ($99) which is terrific for assembling wood frames.

[CoolBees]

Member - its going to depend on what corner joints you want on the boxes. The basic "butt joint" (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Butt_joint) just has one board (side) butted up against the next board (end). This is the easiest joint to make - and the least strongest, however it will work. Butt joints can be made on a simple table saw (be careful with this machine), as the sides and ends of the box are basic rectangles.

The frame rest can also be made on a table saw using a Dado blade (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dado_set). Simply set the height of the blade, & cut the end boards on the appropriate side. I use a Rip fence (long metal guide) to guide my wood past the blade. Most table saws come with this option.

Screw (or nail) the box together and your done.

Fancier joints (finger joints, dovetails, miter joints etc) are stronger, generally longer lasting, but much harder to make (or you'll need more expensive equipment).

Warnings: never get your fingers near a table saw blade - use small sticks to push your wood piece thru the blade. Always wear safety glasses (and many more that I forget currently).

[CoolBees]

(That last post took me 3 hrs to finish - got sidetracked. I see others responded before I got it finished.)

Floridagardener's advice is good imho. I don't build boxes from scratch. Mannlake sells them (unassembled economy grade) for $12 in the 5-pack - cheaper in larger bundles. I cant buy good wood for that price.

I use a batter operated drill to screw boxes together (had too many problems with nails).

I use a Brad Nailer Air gun (available at home depot) to assemble frames. It's fun and easy.

[William Bagwell]

Warnings: never get your fingers near a table saw blade - use small sticks to push your wood piece thru the blade. Always wear safety glasses (and many more that I forget currently).

Yes, and stand out of the 'line of fire'! ie directly behind the saw. Keep in mind that the hand holding the push stick is still in the line of fire. Hurts like heck. Think I broke a finger but at least I am still here to tell the tell.

BTW, I was about 10 or 11 years old watching my father building a bee hive when I learned to not stand directly behind a table saw. Was my uncle who stepped into the wrong place that time. At least he was far enough away to not get hurt. 

[CapnChkn]

I repeat what everyone is saying, that table saw blade is chiseling the wood away.  Your fingers are a lot softer than even soft wood.  You want to make the blade just high enough to cut through the wood, and it's still dangerous.  I cut across my left thumb 10 years ago, and I still can't feel anything on the end.

[gww]

I do love my table saw.  I have did all my cutting with a chainsaw and circular saw and recipe saw till I was 50 years old.  For building hives, the table saw is the bomb.  Boxes can be done with out it if needed though but it will be slower.  The cross cut (cut off)  saw with a perfect square cut is super nice too. 
The bees will not mind that much.  Good boxes are for the bee keeper cause it makes working bees easier when things work like they should.  Some of this does depend on what you have most of, money or time.  Buying boards and working with scrap are both expensive in their own right.  So in some situations, buying mass produced stuff is cheaper then doing it on your own.  This is even true on things like growing tomatoes and making your own spaghetti sauce. You can get prego for a buck on sale.

However, If you are like me and retired and have much more time then money, You can do much better building your own if you don't count your time and have no schedule that forces you to go to the store and buy prime boards to use.  Be careful cause scrounging is not free either if you have to drive around to do it.  It probably depends on you living environment  and what is already around and handy on deciding what makes sense for a person to do.
Good luck
gww

[Ben Framed]

Member I build all of my stuff, frames included. However I do not or would not recommend that you try this without a mentor standing right there with you. As some have said, a person can learn alot from youtube videos but a video cannot intervene when you are about to make a disastrous unhealthy mistake. And not just any hobbyist mentor should you trust at that! I mean a man or woman who has been using the type of machinery for years, that you would be needing to accomplish your desires.  There are so many dangers and variables involved. Woodworking  is very very dangerous and one little mistake can ruin you for life. As William Bagwell said this stuff will kick wood up, back, down and sideways. Will snatch, pitch, PULL and kick backward. The different dangers are depending of what piece of equipment you are using at the time, as well as the way you are using it.  I use a radial arm saw DANGEROUS, table saw DANGEROUS, router with a router table DANGEROUS, sliding miter saw DANGEROUS, band saw and yes again Dangerous. I have special jigs that I have come up with that work great for (assembly line work) but the ever present danger is still there and I try to keep on my toes at all times. Unless you are planning of having in the upteen amount of hives I would strongly recommend that you watch the sales at the supply houses. I hope this does not hurt you feelings. If I did not tell of these dangerous and you were to get hurt I would feel very bad for not have warned you. As Mister Honey Pump says, I hope that helps.
Blessings,
Phillip

[Acebird]

If you are a hobbyist I would avoid a radial arm.  Without all the safety devices on it to protect you it is the most dangerous.  And you know you are going to remove all the stuff so you can see what you are doing.

[Acebird]

You can get prego for a buck on sale.

You can also look prego by eating what is prepared and mass produced. LOL

[Ben Framed]

If you are a hobbyist I would avoid a radial arm.  Without all the safety devices on it to protect you it is the most dangerous.  And you know you are going to remove all the stuff so you can see what you are doing.

I agree, the only purpose I have for mine is making those factory smooth recessed handles.

[gww]

The risk is not so bad compared to the outcome that might be possible.  Though out life people will make mistakes no matter how careful they are but the alternative is to lock yourself up in your room and never go out.  I have always been proud of myself when I have did things on my own.  I had a ladder collapse when I built my pole barn.  I got lucky that I was not harmed and know it could have went the other way.  Should I have built it?  It sure is nice now that it is built and will last way past when I am dead.  Don't be afraid.  It is not rocket science.  Use a little common sense and be proud of what you accomplish.
Cheers
gww

[Ben Framed]

I agree with you GWW. I am not attempting to encourage or discourage Member, but I did attempt to make sure she goes into this with her eyes wide open to what can happen and that wood working does have its dangers. She said she has zero experience with wood working tools and no experienced mentor. This is dangerous with (zero) experience. . This attempted eye opener is strictly for her benefit of well being. She ask to talk to her like a child so I laid it out just as I would tell a teenager the dangers of driving before I would turn the keys over.  LOL  I still recommend  that she buy her boxes unless she plans on buying many. The price of tools may out weigh the difference?

[gww]

Ben Framed

The price of tools may out weigh the difference?

I agree with this and most will not have need big enough to justify this one thing.  I went through three cheap table saws and have three in my shed that I use two of fairly regular.  I have not made the price of my first one based on value added accomplishments unless you put high value on pride. 

I did get one of those saws for $25 bucks though and it might be my second best saw.

Like mentioned earlier, I was 50 years old before I got a table saw and I did tons of work before I turned 50 and not much work after.  I do liken it to having a 4 wheel drive truck.  I might only use the 4 wheel drive once a year when I could have just stayed home but I sure do like it.
Cheers
gww

[The15thMember]

Thank you so much for all the replies everyone!  Lots of great advice here.   

Member I build all of my stuff, frames included. However I do not or would not recommend that you try this without a mentor standing right there with you. As some have said, a person can learn alot from youtube videos but a video cannot intervene when you are about to make a disastrous unhealthy mistake. And not just any hobbyist mentor should you trust at that! I mean a man or woman who has been using the type of machinery for years, that you would be needing to accomplish your desires.  There are so many dangers and variables involved. Woodworking  is very very dangerous and one little mistake can ruin you for life. As William Bagwell said this stuff will kick wood up, back, down and sideways. Will snatch, pitch, PULL and kick backward. The different dangers are depending of what piece of equipment you are using at the time, as well as the way you are using it.  I use a radial arm saw DANGEROUS, table saw DANGEROUS, router with a router table DANGEROUS, sliding miter saw DANGEROUS, band saw and yes again Dangerous. I have special jigs that I have come up with that work great for (assembly line work) but the ever present danger is still there and I try to keep on my toes at all times. Unless you are planning of having in the upteen amount of hives I would strongly recommend that you watch the sales at the supply houses. I hope this does not hurt you feelings. If I did not tell of these dangerous and you were to get hurt I would feel very bad for not have warned you. As Mister Honey Pump says, I hope that helps.
Blessings,
Phillip

A lot of you have warned me about the safety aspects of using these large tools.  This is a valid warning, as I am completely inexperienced with using such equipment.  My feelings are not hurt in the least, on the contrary, as Phillip said, I think it's smart for you not to encourage someone with no experience to just go out and start messing around with something like a table saw.  The danger warnings are duly noted and very much appreciated. 

The risk is not so bad compared to the outcome that might be possible.  Though out life people will make mistakes no matter how careful they are but the alternative is to lock yourself up in your room and never go out.  I have always been proud of myself when I have did things on my own.  I had a ladder collapse when I built my pole barn.  I got lucky that I was not harmed and know it could have went the other way.  Should I have built it?  It sure is nice now that it is built and will last way past when I am dead.  Don't be afraid.  It is not rocket science.  Use a little common sense and be proud of what you accomplish.
Cheers
gww

Gww's point is valid too though.  If this is something I feel I'd like to do and the only thing keeping me from it is potential danger, the danger shouldn't keep me from pursuing it.  Care is certainly necessary, but sometimes a little risk is too, as long as one is not cavalier about it. 

All that being said. . .
I see 2 problems.  #1, It seems like the only easy way to make reliable straight cuts for someone inexperienced would be to use a table saw or chop saw.  In other words, a large expensive piece of equipment that I do not own, and I imagine will not be cheap to purchase.  Which brings me to problem #2, If the monetary savings of building my own equipment is not necessarily that big, as FloridaGardener and gww referenced, AND I'll have to spend money on the saw, this might not be the cost savings that I assumed it would be.  That coupled with the fact that I actually have no idea how to even build anything, may make this not as good of an idea as I previously thought it was.  Comments? 


   

[gww]

The15th.........
You know yourself and are probably on the right track.  Just because you are on that track now does not mean that now that you have focused on this that you won't sorta pay attention from here on and learn more.  If you later change your mind, that is fine also.  Everything does not have to be done right now.
I think you will figure out what works best for you.
Cheers
gww