absconding and takeover swarms

tig · June 01, 2006, 01:15:21 AM

Hello all,

Lately i have been having rather unusual behavior from my colonies. Several of my colonies have absconded and while watching them swarm out of the box, I have seen them go to another box and try a complete takeover. In one instance, 5 colonies swarmed and ALL 5 tried to take over 1 particular box. It was a pain trying to seperate the queens, the bees were fighting and we couldn't tell which bees belonged to which queen. We ended up caging all 6 queens, putting them on top of 6 nuc boxes and we shook out all the bees from the big box and let them choose their own queen.

An examination of the boxes where the absconding swarms came from showed pollen, honey and even eggs and larva with sealed brood. No presence of any predators like spiders or ants...in other words, i can't find any reason for them to swarm. These take over swarms mostly happen when they are nuc sized but i've had a few that come from 10 framers. i'm sure my other colonies have been taken over because sometimes its a different color queen inside when i examine it. We do not have africanized bees here in my country and all our melliferas are domesticated bees. There are no feral colonies of mellifera in my country so i'm sure those are also my queens that only somehow changed residence!

Has anyone ever had experiences with this kind of behavior? And any advice on how to control or prevent this kind of swarming? BTW: all the queens are mated and laying queens....no virgin queens at all.

Michael Bush · June 01, 2006, 07:37:24 AM

What kind of bees do you have in the Phillipines? I have never seen behaviour such as this but have heard Africanized Honey Bees described as having that behavior. I didn't think you had AHB there. Do you have some other race of bees besides Apis mellifera?

tig · June 01, 2006, 08:35:43 AM

the other races are A. dorsata which is the migratory giant bee and lives in open combs and A. cerana which is the smaller version of A. mellifera. the ceranas are also hived by some beekeepers but i find them almost impossible to handle. we have a saying that the beekeepers who can hande melliferas cannot handle ceranas and vice versa. A. cerana is notorious for their absconding behavior but are somehow hardier than melliferas. they aren't susceptible to brood diseases and mites and i have seen their defensive behavior against wasps and other predators, not to mention you cannot use a smoker because if you do, the opposite reaction happens. instead of the bees calming down and eating honey, they come flying out of all the openings in their box and sting you like crazy.

i had read some articles about the behavior of africanized bees and that thought entered my head, but as i said, we DO NOT have africanized bees. last year all my queens came from kona queens in hawaii and i'm positive hawaii doesn;t have any africanized bees there. last month my queens came from australia and i also underdstand they do not have africanized bees there too. both the kona queens and australian queens are absconding and attempting takeovers, and since i had them marked, i'm sure of the queens. last year a total of over 50 colonies out of 200 acted this way. this year i've had over 35 already. the worse case was when 17 swarmed in one day. 7 queens headed for the same branch, 5 on another and the other 5 attempted to take over 1 box. an 18th made the attempt but when i saw them swarm out of the box i was able to open the cover and catch the queen in mid flight and cage her so her swarm came back to the box. needless to say my apiary was in shambles and up to this day i have to send my helper to go and watch the boxes everyday and call me if swarming occurs. BTW: they act this way irregardless of the weather. rain, shine or typhoon!

Brian D. Bray · June 01, 2006, 10:27:22 PM

>>A. cerana which is the smaller version of A. mellifera. the ceranas are also hived by some beekeepers but i find them almost impossible to handle.

I suspect the Philipines have there own version of the of the Africanized bee.

tig · June 01, 2006, 11:18:21 PM

a. ceranas may be similar to africanized in the sense that they have better defensive behavior against predators but i know many who handle them without any problem. i know someone who has over 600 colonies and he and his huge extended family make a nice living off the honey and pollen. imagine taking care of bees that don't get brood diseases, nosema, trachial mites, varroa mites and no need for wax foundation sheets. all he does is clean the bottom boards around once a week and add top bar frames which he makes from bamboo....nor does he have to feed. in terms of economics....this sounds ideal...

Brian D. Bray · June 01, 2006, 11:34:33 PM

If it sounds too good to be true--it probably is. But it sounds interesting just like bringing African bees to the American's did.

Say Tig, My Dad just passed away--He was in the Philipines during WWII. One night he went hunting the enemy stark naked with the Ithigow's and earned himself one of their beheading knives (Which I still have) (anybody wearing clothing was the enemy and was killed).
They gave him the title "Bravest of the Brave." He was 6th Army, combat intelligence and trained the Alamos Scouts--he was the soldier who located the POW camp that they made the movie "The Great Raid" about. They rewrote the script because he wouldn't let them use his name.

Finsky · June 02, 2006, 01:10:05 AM

Quote from: tigHello all,

Several of my colonies have absconded and while watching them swarm out of the box, I have seen them go to another box and try a complete takeover. In one instance, 5 colonies swarmed and ALL 5 tried to take over 1 particular box. .

If it is real swarming, they have queen cells in hives. To raise them, it takes time.

The honey flow may fill hives

Rainy or clowdy wether may move swarming and then they start same day.

Some years ago I had 15 hives and 7 swarms on tree branches.

Why they go in one place: When swarm calls with it's secen. other may follow. Often several swarms use same place when they gather themselves. They follow some scent.

The answer is inside, how full your hives are. Do they have free combs for brood and nectar.

I think that you have nursed bees quite long time if you have so much hives.

tig · June 12, 2006, 04:58:44 AM

I am sorry to hear that Brian, and my apologies for the late reply. I have been to my farthest apairy which im just setting up and i spent a week there. I would have liked to meet your father because i'm sure he had a lot of stories to tell about his war experiences. From what you mentioned here, i have an idea of the kind of man he was. I am sure you must be very proud of him!

Brian D. Bray · June 12, 2006, 10:37:00 PM

Tig,

Iwas and still am. It took me over 50 years to get the complete story about the raid on the POW camp they made the movie about. after it came out on DVD we watched it together and I then got the whole story, it was one of the last things we did together. He was not a man to make idle talk or brag, he was very humble and a very brave man.
We were both Police officers and both of us ended up getting disabled in the line of duty.
We were also both in Army Intellegence, him during WW II and I during Vietman. The number of paralells in our lives is huge and created a special bond between us. We both were the 2nd of 4 sons, both had five children, both born on the 6th day of the month, and the list goes on.
I miss him very much, but I am now living in the house he died in and am continuing the task of keeping the family in touch and providing a refuge for those who need it. My small farmette takes his greatgrandchildren back in time to when most of the world lived on family farms.

ctsoth · June 12, 2006, 11:00:01 PM

Brian, both your father and yourself sound like very amazing person. I think it is terribly sad when war heroes pass away... My great uncle served in the pacific as well, everyone in his company [or whatever it was called] was killed except for himself and a few other guys... He never talks about the war... Another great uncle [passed] was a paratrooper that stormed Hitlers castle/house or whatnot.

I mention my family, because I didn't even know about what they did in the war until very recently, and I am 21. I wonder how many people have relatives in the wars that did great and heroic things and their family doesn't know anything about it... I am glad for you that you and your father had a very special bond, and I am certain you will see eachother again someday...

Sorry for the post hijack.