looking for input

[Seeb]

I went in my hive yesterday [day 8 of newly installed package] and have a few questions. This is the oil tray, and it looks like there is one hive beetle in it. Would you look with your educated eye and see if you see any signs of mites. I'm going back in on Monday - weather permitting, and will clean this tray at that time.

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It looks to me like these bees are drawing pretty large cells to me.

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I did find the queen

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[Acebird]

You should be able to access the tray without bothering the bees.  Clean it and put it in for one day.  Check it every day for a week.  Other insects will eat mites among other things in the tray.  You numbers are not accurate if you wait a week.

[BeeMaster2]

Seeb,
It is a little fuzzy but I do not see any mites.
The hive looks like it is building up fast.
I would not go into this hive for at least 2 weeks. Inspections set them back.
I see your queen in the fourth picture.
Jim Altmiller

[Seeb]

Ace - You are right, I can clean it without disturbing the bees, and will follow your advice, and clean it today / everyday for a week. 

Jim - Whew! that's encouraging news.  I will have to open the hive to feed since I have a frame feeder, but can do this without messing with the bees. Since the feeder holds a gallon i'm thinking it should last at least a week between refills.  I will wait another 2 weeks before inspecting again.

Do y'all think the size of the cells being drawn is normal?  The foundation I installed on every other frame is the 4.9mm for mite control. Maybe the cells just look large because the workers are small/young. Not that there would be anything I could do about it, but just curious.

As always - I do appreciate you all

[van from Arkansas]

Ms. Seeb, you mentioned small cell, below are articles for your review.


Berry, J.A., Owens, W.B., Delaplane, K.S. (2010) Small-cell comb foundation does not impede Varroa mite population growth in honey bee colonies. Apidologie 41, 40?44.
Coffey, M.F., Breen, J., Brown, M.J.F., McMullan, J.B. (2010) Brood-cell size has no influence on the population dynamics of Varroa destructor mites in the native western honey bee, Apis mellifera mellifera. Apidologie 41, 522?530.
Ellis, A.M., Hayes, G.W., Ellis, J.D. (2009) The efficacy of small cell foundation as a Varroa mite (Varroa destructor) control. Exp. Appl. Acarol. 47, 311?316.
Zhou, T., J. Yao, S.X. Huang, Z.Y. Huang. 2001. Larger cell size reduces varroa mite reproduction. Proceedings of the American Bee Research Conference, American Bee Journal 141: 895-896.
Taylor, M.A., Goodwin, R.M., McBrydie, H.M., Cox, H.M. (2008) The effect of honeybee worker brood cell size on Varroa destructor infestation and reproduction. J. Apic. Res. 47, 239?242.

Many article for reference of small cell and varroa. 

[The15thMember]

Do y'all think the size of the cells being drawn is normal?  The foundation I installed on every other frame is the 4.9mm for mite control. Maybe the cells just look large because the workers are small/young. Not that there would be anything I could do about it, but just curious.

Obviously this is sort of a controversial issue, but I wouldn't be too concerned about cell size.  I tend to take a "bees know best" sort of approach to it.  Bees have been building comb for thousands of years, and they know the size workers they want.  Personally, I use no foundation of any kind, and just let my bees build however they want (as long as it's reasonably straight).  That's just my opinion however.  I think that small cell is possibly a good addition to a mite control regimen; as Van just posted, there has been a lot of research done on it.  I just wouldn't worry if the bees don't agree exactly to the cell size we think is best for them.   

[Seeb]

Thanks for the links Van and input Member - and I agree, they will build the size they need.

I'm not worried about it at all - just curious, as I've never seen cells this size except for drone [I'm looking at comb they are building without the bought foundation in particular - picture # 2]. Of course it's been a long time since I've kept bees, and my memory's not what it use to be - lol

[The15thMember]

Thanks for the links Van and input Member - and I agree, they will build the size they need.

I'm not worried about it at all - just curious, as I've never seen cells this size except for drone [I'm looking at comb they are building without the bought foundation in particular - picture # 2]. Of course it's been a long time since I've kept bees, and my memory's not what it use to be - lol

I'll just mention that sometimes bees will build bigger cells to store honey in, but with a package that doesn't seem very likely to me, since they'd be focused primarily on brood at this point.  I do see two drones sitting on that frame, but with the package just getting started in the hive, I'm assuming they must have come from another hive somewhere around you.  In my admittedly limited experience, a package wouldn't be thinking about drones yet either.     

[BeeMaster2]

The drones probably came from the package. Most packages will have drones unless the seller is using queen excluders to catch his queens.
Jim Altmiller

[Seeb]

Agreed

[Ben Framed]

Very good research Mr Van. Thanks for posting.

[Seeb]

new bees - 11th day

~The girls are bringing in pollen daily. 

~The other day when I went into the hive, the supplemental pollen patty I gave them was near gone.

~When I resupply their syrup tomorrow, should I also add another pollen patty given that they are bringing in real pollen?

~ Are they using the supplemental pollen just to clear it out of the hive, or do they need it - how does one know?

[Ben Framed]

~When I resupply their syrup tomorrow, should I also add another pollen patty given that they are bringing in real pollen?

Seeb I would be a little hesitant to add pollen patties this time of year because of SHB.

Phillip

[Seeb]

I would be a little hesitant to add pollen patties this time of year because of SHB.

Phillip

Wow - so many things to remember. Thanks Phillip, I?ll take your advice

[BeeMaster2]

Seeb,
If there is a lot of flowers blooming, I would it worry about pollen supplements.
Jim Altmiller

[Seeb]

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new hive day 16
24 hour tray assessment - found 3 mites today

[Acebird]

new hive day 16
24 hour tray assessment - found 3 mites today

For this time of year I would say that is a high if it was an average for the week.  Count every day for 10 days.  Was this a package?

[Seeb]

Ace, yes this was a new package installed on March 26th, in new equipment. I've been checking daily for the past week and this is the first time i've seen mites. I'm wondering if I would get a better count using a sticky board as opposed to an oil tray, or does that even matter if finding 3 this time of year is high.

I would be interested in your thought on getting this under control, I was hoping not to use chemicals. I'll post todays count when I check it this afternoon

[van from Arkansas]

Ms. Seeb, if you do not wish to use chemicals then apply a brood bread AFTER the flow.  Remove all capped brood, freeze or start another hive,,,  late July or August, leave one open frame of larva known as a trap comb.  After trap comb is capped, remove and freeze.  Your hive will be mostly mite free and ready to make winter bees.

The above is the short version, very brief I might add, to control mites for optimal winter healthy bees.

I have been studying the heck out of Varroa,  scientists have determined that 8.7 percent mite load is the critical level.  Above this level results in Spring hive crash.  Mites attain this level in July or August with hives that experience a winter brood break and commence brood rearing in or about February.  So Florida and Portions of California and the like, are not applicable to above.

If you are worried about loss of bees by removing the capped brood then understand this:  bees live longer if they are not feeding brood so your natural die off of bees is interrupted as the bees within the hive will live longer than the normal 6 weeks.

The above has been practiced by commercial German and Italian beek for a few years now, successfully.

[The15thMember]

Ms. Seeb, if you do not wish to use chemicals then apply a brood bread AFTER the flow.  Remove all capped brood, freeze or start another hive,,,  late July or August, leave one open frame of larva known as a trap comb.  After trap comb is capped, remove and freeze.  Your hive will be mostly mite free and ready to make winter bees.

The above is the short version, very brief I might add, to control mites for optimal winter healthy bees.

I have been studying the heck out of Varroa,  scientists have determined that 8.7 percent mite load is the critical level.  Above this level results in Spring hive crash.  Mites attain this level in July or August with hives that experience a winter brood break and commence brood rearing in or about February.  So Florida and Portions of California and the like, are not applicable to above.

If you are worried about loss of bees by removing the capped brood then understand this:  bees live longer if they are not feeding brood so your natural die off of bees is interrupted as the bees within the hive will live longer than the normal 6 weeks.

The above has been practiced by commercial German and Italian beek for a few years now, successfully.

Great information, Van.  I'm going to do some additional research on this and maybe give it a try this year.