looking for input

[CoolBees]

I agree - if your getting mite drop on a 2 week(ish) old package install, that's [potentially] not good. All mites right now should be diving into [or already be in] soon-to-be-capped brood. During spring buildup, you don't see many mites dropping even in heavily infested hives, due to brood buildup.

This suggests that maybe your package has so many mites, that some are dropping. If that is the case, some intervention on your part would be required (speaking from experience).

1st - I'd be wanting to determine the overall mite load in this hive. Then, based on that knowledge, I'd determine a course of action.

... It also could mean that your bees are very hygienic and quickly "dealt with" 3 mites that found their way into the hive - thus, I'd want to determine infestation level 1st.

[Seeb]

04/11/20 hive tray check - the oil tray has no mites or SHB today that I can see, in fact - it's clean of almost all debris compared to other daily checks. The temps got down in the mid 30's last night, and I wonder if that has anything to do with how clean the oil tray is today.

Van - I'm going to have to investigate and read several more times to understand all you are saying.  It sounds like it will work, and I thank you for taking the time to reply. I may have more questions about this later.

CB - given that there have not been honeybee's in my immediate area in several years, I expect these mites came with my bee package and that scares me to thinking the mites are many, and maybe until I get them under control, I should go ahead and treat.

I will continue the routine of daily checks, and am thinking when I go into the hive on Tuesday to replenish their syrup, I should take out a few bees and try a powered sugar shakedown. I'm certainly open to any thoughts.

Want to share pic from my Itoh Peony as well

[attachment=0][/attachment]

[CoolBees]

Beautiful flowers.

I'm not saying you "do" have a major mite problem. I'm saying you "might" have a major mite problem - and might-should be monitoring via your preferred method. ... I prefer alcohol wash - and/or opening capped brood - to find the answers. Everyone has their own preference.

What you decide to do after you "know" the answer, is entirely your call. (I started out TF - until all my hives died. Now I treat with OAV as needed - based on monitoring). Keep us updated.

Also note: I'm not one of the foremost experts here - just speaking from some experience regarding massive mite infestations.

[Acebird]

Seeb, I don't treat regardless of what the numbers are but I do want to know if a hive is struggling and for what reason.  I also do not push newbies to do all the things ESPECIALLY when they don't know halve the things.
Notes:
It looks like you have a commercial SBB.  This is not going to work if the tray is dry.  Mites and SHB will just re-enter the hive through the screen.  The tray must be 1.5-2in away from the screen if the tray is dry.  Secondly, this area must be blocked at all times so bees cannot visit the tray.  Otherwise the mites just hitch another ride into the hive.
I am not fond of feeding but I have read a lot of bad reports using an entrance feeder.  No experience here.
Where I come from:  In my book newbies do far too much intervention and not enough hands off observation early on, mostly because they are pushed into it.  You will never know what the bees will do on their own if you don't let them do it.
Good luck with your hives and really concentrate on what is local.

[Seeb]

Thank you Ace, I really appreciate your input and want to clarify so that you have the full picture

I have the authentic Freeman bottom board; it has a very tight seal so bees cannot get in, and I keep recycled mineral oil in it at all times. 

The front feeder you see is used for water only.     I don't want them over in my neighbors swimming pool so I give them water at the hive

I'm using an interior, 1 gallon frame feeder and do not intend to feed more than necessary to get this new hive going.  I'm feeding them Pro-Sweet Liquid Feed.

I will continue to do daily tray checks as recommended, but Ace, what do you do when you have high counts of mites?


Coolbees, I understand the might have of your answer.
Here's a question though about an alcohol wash. I used all my alcohol making hand sanitizer - and good luck finding more right now. I have an unopened bottle of 40% Vodka that has been distilled 5 times and has been in my pantry for years, will this work just as well? 

[CoolBees]

Seeb - very good question. I really don't know the answer to that. Hopefully someone here does.

Personally - that's exactly what I'd use, if I didn't have the normal stuff. But my willingness to experiment, shouldn't be construed as "good advice". 

Here's some random thoughts:

Ace isn't wrong with his advice either - waiting 2 or 3 months for the hive to build strength before Alc. Wash, isn't going to change things much in the long run - except you'd have more mites by then. But, the loss of 300 bees then, wouldn't have as much of an impact on the colony. You either have lots mites already, or you dont. I've gone both ways in this situation - and both worked.

I've successfully recovered every hive that has gone over 50 mites per 300 bees (really bad infestation level), via OAV applied twice weekly (Sundays and Thursdays) for 5 weeks. Although I don't like the levels to get that high - I do like knowing what the levels are, and knowing what can and can't be done at that point.

There really is no "wrong" approach - just your choices on how your going to keep your bees in your area.

Quick story - a friend of mine (about 7 miles away) is basically totally Treatment Free. He opens his hives once a year to take some honey - nothing else. All his bees come from swarms. He has many hives die each year. Last fall he had 10 hives. This spring 4 remained. He's caught 5 more swarms in the last 3 weeks, and came to me for more equipment last week. Some would say he's wrong in his approach. Others would say he's going to end up with the only working solution to the Bee's issues - by letting nature sort things out. Who's right? ... that's another good question ... 

I don't want to keep bees the way my friend does - but that doesn't make either of us wrong. ... just some thoughts ...

[Ben Framed]

>Quick story - a friend of mine (about 7 miles away) is basically totally Treatment Free. He opens his hives once a year to
   take some honey - nothing else. All his bees come from swarms. He has many hives die each year. Last fall he had 10
   hives. This spring 4 remained. He's caught 5 more swarms in the last 3 weeks, and came to me for more equipment last
   week. Some would say he's wrong in his approach. Others would say he's going to end up with the only working solution
   to the Bee's issues - by letting nature sort things out. Who's right? ... that's another good question ... 

   I don't want to keep bees the way my friend does - but that doesn't make either of us wrong. ... just some thoughts ...

Good post Cool. As a side question. How much OAV do you use when treating twice weekly per five weeks. Good report.

Phillip

[The15thMember]

Here's a question though about an alcohol wash. I used all my alcohol making hand sanitizer - and good luck finding more right now. I have an unopened bottle of 40% Vodka that has been distilled 5 times and has been in my pantry for years, will this work just as well? 

You could always do a sugar roll instead of an alcohol wash.  It's a little less accurate than an alcohol wash, but it doesn't kill the bees, so that's how I monitor my mite levels.  TheHoneyPump recommended to me to multiply the number of mites per hundred by 1.3 to help compensate for the inaccuracy of the sugar vs. the alcohol.   

[Seeb]

 I like your "quick story" CB

Yes, everyone has different thoughts on how to keep bees and I totally respect that! I personally would like to be Treatment Free, but am grateful for ALL opinions.  As Ace said, newbies don't know half the things out there for consideration.

Thanks member - do you still try to get about 1/2 cup [300 bees] for a sugar roll and take the test bees off the brood frames?

[The15thMember]

Thanks member - do you still try to get about 1/2 cup [300 bees] for a sugar roll and take the test bees off the brood frames?

Yes, a brood frame seems to be better. I generally try to roll a cup, just because I think that more bees is a little more accurate, but I?ve done it with half a cup if the frame wasn?t very full. I usually eyeball about a tablespoon of powdered sugar with my hive tool.

[William Bagwell]

The front feeder you see is used for water only.     I don't want them over in my neighbors swimming pool so I give them water at the hive

What an excellent idea! Bought one before I knew better... Had thought of donating it as a door prize, but that seems cruel to the unsuspecting. Will try it as a waterer. 

[van from Arkansas]

Ms. Seeb, I am a hobbyist and I do a lot of beekeeping different from typical Beeks.  With this in mind, I do not count mites.  Why should I?  I know the mites are present, I know the mites replicate, double every 3 weeks and by July or August the mites will pass a critical level therefore my winter bees will be permanently harmed, weakened by the mites thus not surviving the winter dying in February or March the following year.  So, either I treat with an organic acid, or create a brood break and remove capped brood leaving behind a single trapping comb with open larva for catching most of the remaining mites.

So I do not count as I know the mites are present and I just hate killing those innocent bees that trust me.  When I open a hive, the first thing I see is all the bees lined up between the frames, side by side looking up at me.  I can?t kill those bees, no way.  Like I said, I am a hobbyist.  I understand commercial beeks must operate different from me if they wish their apiary to survive.

So, above is another option to consider, Ms. Seeb.  One thing about bees, there are many ways to accomplish the desired goal.

Van

[FloridaGardener]

OMG! The Itoh peony !!!

Can't do peonies in the South.  In upstate NY they would grow like weeds in the clay soil.  Miss the peonies but not the snow.

[van from Arkansas]

04/11/20 hive tray check - the oil tray has no mites or SHB today that I can see, in fact - it's clean of almost all debris compared to other daily checks. The temps got down in the mid 30's last night, and I wonder if that has anything to do with how clean the oil tray is today.

Van - I'm going to have to investigate and read several more times to understand all you are saying.  It sounds like it will work, and I thank you for taking the time to reply. I may have more questions about this later.

CB - given that there have not been honeybee's in my immediate area in several years, I expect these mites came with my bee package and that scares me to thinking the mites are many, and maybe until I get them under control, I should go ahead and treat.

I will continue the routine of daily checks, and am thinking when I go into the hive on Tuesday to replenish their syrup, I should take out a few bees and try a powered sugar shakedown. I'm certainly open to any thoughts.

Want to share pic from my Itoh Peony as well

[attachment=0][/attachment]

Ms. Seeb:  How beautiful, manicured lawn, ornate hive frame, freshly painted hive and beautiful pee on me; that is what I call those flowers to raz the wife.

[Acebird]

but Ace, what do you do when you have high counts of mites?

So far no intervention.
In 6 years I have lost about 6 hives.  Two right off the bat from beginner mistakes, three from splits that didn't make it, one possibly mites.
This is my philosophy: If you treat you potentially save the hive but weaken the apiary.  You create an apiary that now needs treatment to survive.  Another thing that happens particularly for newbies is you make mistakes when intervening like rolling the queen and maybe overdose of chemicals.  The hive dies and it is blamed on mites.  It is my experience where I once lived that a hobbyist will end up with more hives then they want just from controlling swarms.
The hardest thing for a hobbyist is to maintain 3 hives.  You will either have 6, one or none.  That being said my goal is to try and maintain two hives in my new location and I know this is practically impossible right from the start.
If your goal is to be a hobbyist make your decisions based on your goal.  If your goal is to make money don't pay attention to anything I say.

[Seeb]

4/12 24 hour oil tray check - no sign of mites or SHB

If your goal is to be a hobbyist make your decisions based on your goal.

Thank you for sharing your thoughts Ace. I think the best thing for me to do is to write down my goals, so I can always reread them when information coming into my brain from books or different sites I follow gets me confused/off track.  I'm not looking to make $ - my goal is to have one hive now, and hope to add a second, but no more.

I just hate killing those innocent bees that trust me

Okay Van, I was pretty certain I would not do a alcohol wash before reading your thoughts, but now I'm certain of it, almost made me cry.   

also from Van - manicured lawn, ornate hive frame, freshly painted hive and beautiful pee on me; that is what I call those flowers to raz the wife

lol - if you could really see my place, you would chuckle at what you say is a manicured lawn - when the guy that cuts my "grass" comes, he says - "well, it's time to cut your weeds", and surely he is right. I can see you now aggravating [razzing] your wife. I bet you two have lots of laughs.

Will try it as a waterer/color]

William - lol, so glad it now has a use that won't cause you to have years of guilt!

FG - so glad you like the Peony - here's what it looks like today. I'm zone 7b in sandy soil, and my herbaceous peonies do not do well at all, but my brother gave me this Itoh back in 2015, and it is a real champion

[attachment=0][/attachment]

[CoolBees]

Ace - very well said!

Seeb - you've got this. 

[Seeb]

Why, thank you CB - most kind of you to show faith. 

[Seeb]

April 13th - no mites or SHB

[CoolBees]

April 13th - no mites or SHB

Awesome!