Swarming Beard Question

Ben Framed · June 11, 2021, 06:33:29 PM

When we find a bearding situation which may also be a swarming situation, will we find the queen on the outside of the box in the beard? Or does she wait until the exact time of the swarm and leave or come out of the box with the swarm?

jtcmedic · June 11, 2021, 06:55:20 PM

Quote from: Ben Framed on June 11, 2021, 06:33:29 PM
When we find a bearding situation which may also be a swarming situation, will we find the queen on the outside of the box in the beard? Or does she wait until the exact time of the swarm and leave or come out of the box with the swarm?

that?s a good question
All my hives are bearding no but due to heat and a little bit of a dearth

Ben Framed · June 11, 2021, 07:04:19 PM

Thanks Jc, I have the same situation at my yards. Some more bearded than others, but one in particular that has an astronomical amount of bees on the outside. I checked it today thinking I might find capped QC but not so, they still had plenty room, I have been providing more room this year than my second two springs. But while I was thinking about it I was wondering if anyone here knew the answer to the Question. Thanks for your reply.

The15thMember · June 11, 2021, 09:19:44 PM

I don't know the answer, but I'd feel pretty confident about "it depends".

You know how bees are, just when we say they do it this way, they go and do it that way.

Bee North · June 11, 2021, 10:10:23 PM

I had a hive about to swarm with capped cells last season.

I didnt have the hardware to make splits so I removed the cells and caged the queen in a large full frame size cage to give me time.

The next day the hive swarmed. They started bearding early in the morning and then later that day swarmed... only to return an hour later realizing they didnt have the queen!

On this occasion they bearded without the queen...however if the queen wasnt locked up perhaps she would have joined them.

What I do know is none of my other hives were bearding that day and the queen didnt trigger the bearding prior to swarming because she was locked up!

Sorry I havnt answered the question Ben but perhaps I provided clue.

BeeMaster2 · June 11, 2021, 11:07:23 PM

Ben,
Having an observation hive has helped to learn about swarms. The bees would beard in large numbers covering the entrance in preparation to swarm. The queens did not leave the hive until the day of the swarm. Remember the bees make the hive decisions not the queen. When the hive is super swarming, the virgin queen that is allowed to swarm is not released from her cell until the hive is swarming. They do not allow her to attack the other queen cells.
Hope this helps.
Jim Altmiller

Oldbeavo · June 12, 2021, 06:06:28 AM

Hi Guys
Don't know if this will work, but here is some bearding[attachment=0][/attachment]

[attachment=0][/attachment]

Bob Wilson · June 12, 2021, 07:25:53 AM

Beavo.
It seems strange to me that a few of the hives are bearding greatly and the others not. If it was just a hot days they all ought to be hanging out a bit. Right?
Why are those few bearding so much?
Bad ventilation in those boxes?
Congestion from needing another super?
Swarming prep?

Ben Framed · June 12, 2021, 09:37:16 AM

>I don't know the answer, but I'd feel pretty confident about "it depends".

You know how bees are just when we say they do it this way, they go and do it that way.

Member, I like that answer. "It depends".

You know how bees are".
Yes I do lol......

> "I had a hive about to swarm with capped cells last season. I didnt have the hardware to make splits so I removed the cells and caged the queen in a large full frame size cage to give me time. The next day the hive swarmed. They started bearding early in the morning and then later that day swarmed... only to return an hour later realizing they didnt have the queen! On this occasion they bearded without the queen...however if the queen wasnt locked up perhaps she would have joined them. What I do know is none of my other hives were bearding that day and the queen didnt trigger the bearding prior to swarming because she was locked up! Sorry I havnt answered the question Ben but perhaps I provided clue."

That is very interesting Bee North! Seems to me you handled that situation very well, (and the questoion very well aso!! Your answer goes right along with Beemaster2s' answer. Thanks ! You outfoxed the bees!
"What I do know is none of my other hives were bearding that day and the queen didnt trigger the bearding prior to
swarming because she was locked up!" "Sorry I havnt answered the question Ben but perhaps I provided clue."

> Ben, Having an observation hive has helped to learn about swarms. The bees would beard in large numbers covering the entrance in preparation to swarm. The queens did not leave the hive until the day of the swarm. Remember the bees make the hive decisions not the queen. When the hive is super swarming, the virgin queen that is allowed to swarm is not released from her cell until the hive is swarming. They do not allow her to attack the other queen cells.
Hope this helps.
Jim Altmiller

Thanks Jim, very clear. I appreciate your answer.

> Hi Guys
Don't know if this will work, but here is some bearding

Yes it is! Oldbeavo the featured hive in your picture is what I had here with the hive described in the OP, except it had bees on the sides as well. not completely covered but many bees on the sides. That is way I thought it may be in a swarm mode until I opened and inspected.

> Why are those few bearding so much? Bad ventilation in those boxes? Congestion from needing another super? Swarming prep?

Good questions Bob. In my hive of the subject, it was not swarm prep. I know because i went in and inspected. It wasn't lack of space because they had room. Maybe more ventilation could be the answer. (heat?)

Oldbeavo · June 12, 2021, 05:53:29 PM

Hi Bob and all
It is a combination of hot weather, a lot of bees in those hives and being full of honey.
All the bearding hives plus a few more got another super the next day.
This photo was taken at about 3 in the afternoon after about a 100F day. Probably still at 95 at photo.
Bees were in dappled shade.

The hive have floor vents and lid vents, no inner cover or hive mat.

BeeMaster2 · June 12, 2021, 07:47:37 PM

I found out that screen top boards don?t help the bees keep the hive cool one spring day when I moved my bees from Jacksonville to my farm and had only pulled the insulation boards from half of the hives. A couple of days later on a hot spring day, half of the hives were bearding and the other half were not. I lifted the tops and found that none of the hives that still had the winter insulation boards were not. the rest were Bearding. Now I keep the insulation on year around.
Jim Altmiller

Ben Framed · June 12, 2021, 08:18:18 PM

Jim In your use of using insulation board, do you place the insulation board directly on the top box in between the top box and the regular top? The reason I ask is I have also used the insulation board in the past to finally see the bees tunnel their way out. I placed it between the top box and the flat, non edged lid. Nothing hurt by the tunnels. I just never put it back the next time. Maybe I should have.

Bob Wilson · June 12, 2021, 09:54:43 PM

I use the foil bubble wrap that people use to wrap hot water heaters. I have four migratory tops on each long hive, a 4ft long sheet of vinyl to keep out the rain, and a 4ft sheet of foil bubble wrap to reflect and insulate the migratory top boards,with bricks on top.
(I didn't want a long, heavy hinged roof system. The vinyl and bubble wrap just peel off.)

BeeMaster2 · June 12, 2021, 10:44:42 PM

Ben,
The insulation boards go on top of the screen in the screen top boards. I also put a insulation boards in the telescoping cover. The 2 together really help.
Jim Altmiller

Ben Framed · June 12, 2021, 11:28:01 PM

Quote from: BeeMaster2 on June 12, 2021, 10:44:42 PM
Ben,
The insulation boards go on top of the screen in the screen top boards. I also put a insulation boards in the telescoping cover. The 2 together really help.
Jim Altmiller

Thanks Jim, Good stuff!

Oldbeavo · June 13, 2021, 07:53:22 AM

The lids on these hive are insulated with foil board, 20mm polystyrene between layers of builder foil.
The insulation is between the ply top and the tin lid. The lid rim is 40x22, 1 1/2 x 7/8".

Acebird · June 13, 2021, 08:05:22 AM

Quote from: Oldbeavo on June 12, 2021, 06:06:28 AM
Hi Guys
Don't know if this will work, but here is some bearding

That is some serious bearding.

tycrnp · June 14, 2021, 04:01:16 AM

Wow, I'm going to stop worrying about my hives bearding now. They don't even come close to comparing to that!

Michael Bush · June 18, 2021, 08:07:31 PM

>When we find a bearding situation which may also be a swarming situation, will we find the queen on the outside of the box in the beard?

Bearding is bearding. Swarming is swarming. The two are only loosely related. The queen will NOT be on the outside of the box and bearding is NOT an indication of swarming.

Ben Framed · June 18, 2021, 08:33:07 PM

Quote from: Michael Bush on June 18, 2021, 08:07:31 PM
>When we find a bearding situation which may also be a swarming situation, will we find the queen on the outside of the box in the beard?

Bearding is bearding. Swarming is swarming. The two are only loosely related. The queen will NOT be on the outside of the box and bearding is NOT an indication of swarming.

Thanks Mr Bush.