Aw crap.

[Nyleve]

Just made up some syrup and went out to feed my hive. Opened the lid and...nothing. Nothing. Nothing but a few yellowjackets. This happened over no longer than about a week and a half. Last time I checked they were still there. Today nothing. I'm so sad.

[BeeMaster2]

Sorry to hear that. YJs can kill a hive quick. I have 3 dynatraps around my house to remove them.
Jim Altmiller

[Ben Framed]

Nyleve I a sorry for your loss and the disappointment that goes along with it. I take it, this was you only hive? May I encourage you to not give up. Save the resources you have and restock this spring. And, if this is your only hive I would also suggest you obtain three more for a total of four, if finances and space allows..

Phillip

[Nyleve]

I've had one hive for 11 years. I've lost the colony a few times and had to get new ones, but never like this. It's always been - oh well, they didn't make it through the winter. Sad but understandable. I've never had this before - losing them suddenly in November after a good  season. I'm blaming the long, moderate fall temperatures that have allowed the stupid %#$*&# yellowjackets still be active. As I said, they were fine about a week ago so this literally just happened. I will regroup and get a new buncha bees in the spring. I don't think I'll go to 4 hives, but possibly 2. I'm a bit of a scaredy-cat beek, so prefer to keep things very simple. But I do love my girls and today is a sad day for me. I'll put away my stuff and wait for spring. Thanks for the sympathy and support. I'll be back.

[Ben Framed]

Thanks for the sympathy and support. I'll be back.

Awesome!!!

[The15thMember]

Aw, that's a shame.     I think that two hives is probably a safer bet than one, that way you can use them to support each other, and you don't lose everything if something happens to one.  But boy, that is a tough blow, to have them be gone just like that.       

[Acebird]

Look for evidence of mite infestation.  Fall is the make or break time for hives to crash.

[Nyleve]

I had treated for mites about a month before this. There was evidence of mites but it didn't seem too severe - I did a single treatment of Formic Pro. The hive was still active 3 weeks after treatment. This happened in the week since I last checked for feeding.

Ok so it's done. I'd like to know what I can do differently next year. This particular type of dead-out has never happened to me before. I've had hives that just didn't make it through the winter but I've never lost a really active hive in the fall before. I had seen a few yellow jackets around through the summer but that's normal. Did the YJs kill and eat all the bees? Or did the colony abscond? Any ideas? I'd like to learn for next season.

[The15thMember]

I had treated for mites about a month before this. There was evidence of mites but it didn't seem too severe - I did a single treatment of Formic Pro. The hive was still active 3 weeks after treatment. This happened in the week since I last checked for feeding.

This is oddly coincidental.  I had treated some of my hives with FormicPro and two of them showed no reduction in mites.  I was skeptical I had a bad batch of ForimicPro, since the one package worked fine and the other one didn't.  I wish I still had the packaging and knew the batch number. 

Ok so it's done. I'd like to know what I can do differently next year. This particular type of dead-out has never happened to me before. I've had hives that just didn't make it through the winter but I've never lost a really active hive in the fall before. I had seen a few yellow jackets around through the summer but that's normal. Did the YJs kill and eat all the bees? Or did the colony abscond? Any ideas? I'd like to learn for next season.

I've never seen a yellow jacket kill, so I can't speak to that personally, but I doubt the yellow jackets would leave the hive entirely clean of bees unless the colony was already small.  (I trust those with more experience will correct me if I'm wrong.)  How big was the colony?  Were there stores or brood left behind?   

[Acebird]

Did the YJs kill and eat all the bees? Or did the colony abscond? Any ideas? I'd like to learn for next season.

No.  Who knows?  There should be at least 40000 bees in the hive.  No way the YJ can eat them all.  They could have abscond but you need to know if mites were involved.  Even up north bees have been known to swarm in fall.  It is a suicide swarm but they do it.
You have been doing this for 11 years or more?  You either know enough or you are very lucky.  Life doesn't always stay that way.  Just get another hive and don't freak out.  I would say keep doing what you have already done.

[BeeMaster2]

Ace,
Don?t tell Kathyp that YJs can?t kill a whole hive, she has lost a lot of hives to YJs.
I have also lost a few. Usually in the fall when the YJs switch to bees for their food source.
The only reason I don?t have trouble now is due to the dynatraps.
Jim Altmiller

[NigelP]

Very occasionally in the UK we come across hives with no bees in them, I call it Mary Celeste syndrome. No rhyme or reason sometimes. Had one hive full of bees in Feb, come mid march not one left...all gone. No obvious reason, plenty of stores left etc.

[Ben Framed]

Very occasionally in the UK we come across hives with no bees in them, I call it Mary Celeste syndrome. No rhyme or reason sometimes. Had one hive full of bees in Feb, come mid march not one left...all gone. No obvious reason, plenty of stores left etc.

That is a good example Nigel.  The fate of the crew of the Mary Celeste is still a mystery. Being this just recently happened to Nyleves' hive, may afford some clues if examined and looked into more closely. For one, I would look for mite frass. An abundant amount of mite frass on brood combs is usually a tell tale sign in a case like this; Pointing to (Abscond), especially this time of year.
Without more details I kind of suspect that Brian is most likely correct... However, until the frames are closely examined, I would leave the door open to other possibilities and reasons as well.

Acebird
Look for evidence of mite infestation.

Phillip

[Nyleve]

Please describe what I am looking for as mite frass. I have seen mites, of course. and really, this time, not that many. But what I saw on the bottom board is mostly bee legs.

[Ben Framed]

Nyleve This is the best written paper I have read discussing Varroa. Written by: TheHoneyPump.
Along with pictures

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A TYPICAL CASE OF COLONY COLLAPSE, PARASITIC MITE SYNDROME, VARROA DESTRUCTOR
? on: July 20, 2021, 07:31:42 pm ?
QuoteModifyRemoveSplit Topic
I take no credit for this excellent analysis put together by TheHoneyPump and The15thMember but I do find it way too valuable to be buried in another post or potentially disappear from google drive.  It is chocked fully of valuable information for hobbyist beekeepers trying to understand and deal with varroa mites.   So I creating this post to be pinned and attaching a copy of the presentation.

The original location can be found here -> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1NvP-olm7vwMxPVH-Oi1CNHH70Wq913ym/view

* reaganshivecollapse.pdf (2228.88 kB - downloaded 1 times.)

[NigelP]

. Did the YJs kill and eat all the bees? Or did the colony abscond? Any ideas? I'd like to learn for next season.

Believe it or not Yellowjackets are nectar feeders. They kill prey for their larvae to feed on who digest it and produce a sweet food that the adults live on. When the nests are finished at the end of the year their is no more sweet "nectar" for the adults so they go looking for sweet food and hives full of  honey are a prime target. Of course the bees defend their stores and mayhem begins as the battle for the stores ensues.
The answer is large hives full of bees capable of defending against wasp attacks or, in the case of weak hives, tunnel entrances which makes it far easier for the bees to defend. Narrowing the entrance helps but is ineffective when large numbers of wasp are about.

[Acebird]

Ace,
Don?t tell Kathyp that YJs can?t kill a whole hive, she has lost a lot of hives to YJs.

For the hives that can't defend themselves they kill the queen and then it is game over.  If you want to find a solution of why it happens then determine why the hive was weak.  Numbers alone do not confirm that a hive is strong.  For instance a laying worker hive can have a lot of bees in it.

[Ben Framed]

. Did the YJs kill and eat all the bees? Or did the colony abscond? Any ideas? I'd like to learn for next season.

Believe it or not Yellowjackets are nectar feeders. They kill prey for their larvae to feed on who digest it and produce a sweet food that the adults live on. When the nests are finished at the end of the year their is no more sweet "nectar" for the adults so they go looking for sweet food and hives full of  honey are a prime target. Of course the bees defend their stores and mayhem begins as the battle for the stores ensues.
The answer is large hives full of bees capable of defending against wasp attacks or, in the case of weak hives, tunnel entrances which makes it far easier for the bees to defend. Narrowing the entrance helps but is ineffective when large numbers of wasp are about.

Good information again NigelP. Considering the above explanation of the natural habits of yellow jackets in the Fall, leads me to a what if question. Is it reasonable to look into the possibility that the bees might have absconded leaving only a handful of bees, making it even that much easier for yellow jackets to freely come and go with slight opposition as they devour the remaining desired food sources, both larva and honey as you describe above? Again abscond is only a guess. More evidence by Nyleve would be interesting and helpful in her quest for answers.

Phillip

[beesnweeds]

I had treated for mites about a month before this. There was evidence of mites but it didn't seem too severe - I did a single treatment of Formic Pro. The hive was still active 3 weeks after treatment. This happened in the week since I last checked for feeding.

Ok so it's done. I'd like to know what I can do differently next year. This particular type of dead-out has never happened to me before. I've had hives that just didn't make it through the winter but I've never lost a really active hive in the fall before. I had seen a few yellow jackets around through the summer but that's normal. Did the YJs kill and eat all the bees? Or did the colony abscond? Any ideas? I'd like to learn for next season.

They may have gone queenless, did you see scattered drone brood or queen cells?  My experience with yellow jackets in the north is they are just taking advantage of dying hives.  Formic can also be rough on bees and weaken them.

From the link Ben posted:
SUMMER: No checks, no treatments.  Let the bees bee bees.

Thats a big mistake for sure, routinely check mite numbers and treat as necessary.

[NigelP]

Good information again NigelP. Considering the above explanation of the natural habits of yellow jackets in the Fall, leads me to a what if question. Is it reasonable to look into the possibility that the bees might have absconded leaving only a handful of bees, making it even that much easier for yellow jackets to freely come and go with slight opposition as they devour the remaining desired food sources, both larva and honey as you describe above? Again abscond is only a guess. More evidence by Nyleve would be interesting and helpful in her quest for answers.

Phillip

I don't know the answer to that question Philip as too many unknowns. It's certainly a possibility that if they were being harassed by wasp that absconding might be a way of getting away from the nuisance.
I've heard from several beekeepers, whose opinions I trust, that absconding can happen at any time of the year. It's very very rare, but does happen and reasons for it happening are currently unknown. In my one and only case in 20+ years it was early spring. It was annoying as the hive itself was the worst propolisers I'd ever come across and a friend who sells propolis products was desperate to have them in his apiary.