What Is Everyone?s Bees Doing Outside?

The15thMember · December 04, 2021, 12:28:09 AM

Quote from: BeeMaster2 on December 03, 2021, 10:51:28 PM
Member,
I personally would not do an inspection at this time of year. As you said the hives are sealed up and they may not be able to get them sealed back up before it chills back down.
What will you gain by inspecting the hive at this time of year?
Jim Altmiller

Quote from: gww on December 03, 2021, 11:42:26 PM
I agree with jim
gww

Good then, I'll just leave them go and see what happens. I was thinking maybe doing a mite count would be a good idea, but you're right, there is nothing I can really do about it now anyway. Thanks for the help, everybody.

Acebird · December 04, 2021, 08:30:00 AM

Quote from: BeeMaster2 on December 03, 2021, 10:51:28 PM
Member,
I personally would not do an inspection at this time of year.

65 degrees Jim? That could be a summer day up north. Won't hurt them a bit. However mite treatments in December won't change the outcome.

Acebird · December 04, 2021, 08:46:31 AM

Quote from: The15thMember on December 03, 2021, 10:58:48 AM
Actually the top box is a moisture quilt, all my hives are wintered in 2 mediums.

I would say that is a risky policy. Not all hives are the same. So unless you are physically making them the same early enough in the fall the hive size should be different based on the population. An overpopulated hive will starve in the winter and an under populated hive will freeze if measures are not taken to prevent it. Feeding is not an option below 50 degrees and the last thing you want to do is emergency feed through the winter. It doesn't work.
Just saying, if the hive on the left is a runt and the hive on the right is over populated you could rob the resources on the left to save the one on the right and then split it in the spring. Opening the hives in 60+ weather to confirm population will not hurt them in the least.

gww · December 04, 2021, 11:02:08 AM

Although I agree with lots of what ace says above, I have a bit of a philosophical difference then many in managing bees. This does not make me right though. I run my hives with an attitude that they are what they are as of oct 1st and live or die after that date on their own, I do zero for them after oct. and know what happened come april. This takes a willingness to accept loss that with extra work might have been saved and I don't treat and so I need no opportunity to find a brood less time for treating which might come after that date also. I have zero doubt that you can do much better if willing to spend extra effort then I am willing to do for what I get back from bees. The above fact might need to be reflected on with any advice that I might give so that my advice might be put into perspective compared to better bee keepers then me. I might lose bees to other factors but I also do not take much risk of killing queens after the bees can have a chance to replace one.
Cheers
gww

Ben Framed · December 04, 2021, 11:45:47 AM

> Opening the hives in 60+ weather to confirm population will not hurt them in the least.

This has been my experience as well.
Some of the other things written by Brian, can be debated or may be dependent on location and I will not break into that now.

As the discussion evolved, I was not so much concerned about the hive with the bees outside or peeking inside that hive. There was no fighting, no struggling bees etc. I became more concerned about the hive next door with little activity. That is why I ask about >other< hives and what was going on with them the same day, to use these hives as a gage to assess if you will, the little activity of the slow neighbor hive.

There was a huge contrast in the way of activity in the two hives shown. Though they both experienced the same weather variables. I have experienced hives with little activity, while other hives were more active, deciding to peek in and find the hive to be void of population. Only a few coming and going. This has happened in my experience, more than once.

As a side, the post by beesnweeds was solid. Along with suggestion of treatment of OAV in my opinion. It is my opinion, that practice is a good one this time of year when brood is or should be at a minimum. At least in my location.

Phillip

Ben Framed · December 04, 2021, 11:48:34 AM

Adding: congratulations on your video venture member! Good job!!!

Ben Framed · December 04, 2021, 12:38:43 PM

QuoteAlthough I agree with lots of what ace says above, I have a bit of a philosophical difference then many in managing bees. This does not make me right though. I run my hives with an attitude that they are what they are as of oct 1st and live or die after that date on their own, I do zero for them after oct. and know what happened come april. This takes a willingness to accept loss that with extra work might have been saved and I don't treat and so I need no opportunity to find a brood less time for treating which might come after that date also.

gww
There is more than one way to skin a cat and there is more than one way to keep bees. The method that you describe works for you and fits into your program. Letting the bees be bees during the time frame you laid out.

Personally I would like to keep bees in the same manor as you year round..
It must have been grand keeping bees in the days before Varroa and Small Hive Beetles.. I will never know. I 'missed' that golden time of beekeeping....

The15thMember · December 04, 2021, 01:02:11 PM

Ok, I just want to clarify something. I don't overwinter hives in 2 mediums because it's some sort of rule with me, I've just never had a hive that I felt needed one more or one less box. The hive on the left is not, to use Ace's word, a runt. Out of the 4 hives, they are 3rd in population, but even my hive that is lowest in population I felt needed 2 boxes for the winter. The hive that was probably usurped was PACKED into 2 mediums. I was debating giving them a third box, but decided against it. I included the other hive in the picture as a comparison, to show you how little all the other hives were moving around that day.

I am also not emergency feeding the hives because they are weak, I'm emergency feeding because I know they didn't get full enough in the fall to last them the winter. Is that ideal? Of course not. Our fall flow didn't really materialize, so I was feeding them sugar syrup to get the lighter hives up to winter weight when I discovered that my treatments hadn't worked and I needed to treat again. The treatment I used for that second round, ApiLife Var, didn't allow for me to feed while the treatments were on, and it is now too cold to feed liquid syrup, so I'm left with feeding solid sugar as my only recourse.

Quote from: Ben Framed on December 04, 2021, 11:48:34 AM
Adding: congratulations on your video venture member! Good job!!!

Thanks, although I'm not impressed with the upload quality. The video looks WAY clearer on my computer. I guess I'll have to upload in HD next time.

gww · December 04, 2021, 01:14:34 PM

My first two years of bee keeping I used big ole sugar blocks in shims on top of the hives. I had 100 percent survival. I believe they carried lots of sugar out as trash but also that early spring they used it hard to raise brood. I just got too lazy to keep it up. I do say this though, when in doubt, I do have faith in sugar blocks being a good safety net. I never try and be too critical of how others keep bees but more like people to know what they are dealing with if they get advice from me. I always hope that any comment I give is helpful in some way but could always be wrong and so just try to be clear on that point so others can do their own thinking with anything I might add.
Cheers
gww

Ben Framed · December 04, 2021, 01:26:57 PM

I received nothing but a good honest description of your methods. I am glad to see you are posting in the beekeeping section. Your contribution is appreciated. I have switched to Mountian camp sugar for two reasons. It serves as a absorbent moisture barrier above the bees and as you stated about sugar bricks, an added feed if needed.

Phillip

Ben Framed · December 04, 2021, 01:31:11 PM

As an extra Member,
Tim Durham discusses feeding throughout the winter, (if needed), by using top feeder jars. He drills a hole in the top and feeds similar to the way Bob Binnie feeds nucs etc. Tim is in zone 7 as am I.

Phillip

The15thMember · December 04, 2021, 01:37:47 PM

Quote from: Ben Framed on December 04, 2021, 01:31:11 PM
As an extra Member,
Tim Durham discusses feeding throughout the winter, (if needed), by using top feeder jars. He drills a hole in the top and feeds similar to the way Bob Binnie feeds nucs etc. Tim is in zone 7 as am I.

Phillip

I'm not familiar with what you are referring to, Phillip. Do you have a link?

Ben Framed · December 04, 2021, 02:11:49 PM

Sure Member, I have found this for you. He discusses this at the 4:40 time bar. The picture shows numerous holes but he says one or more will do. Mr Binnie uses one... I am thinking he posted the video picture, more for video attention.. lol

Phillip

https://youtu.be/tUJuLxfgNZI

The15thMember · December 04, 2021, 03:00:29 PM

Quote from: Ben Framed on December 04, 2021, 02:11:49 PM
Sure Member, I have found this for you. He discusses this at the 4:40 time bar. The picture shows numerous holes but he says one or more will do. Mr Binnie uses one... I am thinking he posted the video picture, more for video attention.. lol

Phillip

https://youtu.be/tUJuLxfgNZI

Thanks, Phillip. The piece of equipment he's talking about sounds like a jar board for having bees fill jars directly with honey comb, which is something I want to try someday. This could perhaps be another use for that, if I ever actually make one. I'm confused as to why this works though. I can see how it would work for fall feeding, but how would it work for winter? I thought bees couldn't drink syrup that was below 50 degrees F because it is too viscous?

To get back to the original topic, I found an article in the ABJ about hive usurpation, and I'm convinced this was what I witnessed. I couldn't read the whole article because I'm not a subscriber, but the author was describing how usurping bees will often be waggle dancing on the face of the hive because some of the bees are searching for food while the hive takeover is happening, as absconding bees often don't have the opportunity to gorge on honey like a swarm does, and the bees are hungry. He also said, as Jim did, that the process can be very brief if the old queen is killed rapidly, so beekeepers often miss the initial fight at the entrance. According to the article, smaller weaker absconds can take over strong hives this way, in fact they are looking for strong hives because they will have the most stores. Apparently this behavior used to be quite rare in European honey bees, but has become more common in recent years, probably due to the introduction of the African genes into the gene pool, as usurpation is much more common in African and Africanized bees.

Ben Framed · December 04, 2021, 03:38:30 PM

Actually the picture does look like a honey jar filler set up. If you scroll to 4:40 he speaks of feeding with the jar top feeder.

Jurassic posted about jar filling a while back with a very interesting discussion. I?ll let you find that one lol.

jimineycricket · December 04, 2021, 09:15:12 PM

Member: Check this site: http://heretics-guide.atwebpages.com/beek02.htm

I'm not recommending this necessarily. I use pressed sugar bricks myself, but it is an alternative method for feeding syrup in the winter.
Little John posted on this site in the past.

Acebird · December 05, 2021, 08:05:49 AM

Quote from: gww on December 04, 2021, 11:02:08 AM
Although I agree with lots of what ace says above, I have a bit of a philosophical difference then many in managing bees. This does not make me right though. I run my hives with an attitude that they are what they are as of oct 1st and live or die after that date on their own, I do zero for them after oct. and know what happened come april. This takes a willingness to accept loss that with extra work might have been saved and I don't treat and so I need no opportunity to find a brood less time for treating which might come after that date also. I have zero doubt that you can do much better if willing to spend extra effort then I am willing to do for what I get back from bees. The above fact might need to be reflected on with any advice that I might give so that my advice might be put into perspective compared to better bee keepers then me. I might lose bees to other factors but I also do not take much risk of killing queens after the bees can have a chance to replace one.
Cheers
gww

I have the same attitude but you can't do 0 if you rob honey from the hive. My comment is more about treating all hives the same and how that can spell trouble.

Acebird · December 05, 2021, 08:45:01 AM

Quote from: The15thMember on December 04, 2021, 01:02:11 PM
The hive that was probably usurped was PACKED into 2 mediums. I was debating giving them a third box, but decided against it. I included the other hive in the picture as a comparison, to show you how little all the other hives were moving around that day.

But they are not all in the same condition so it is not a comparison.

QuoteI am also not emergency feeding the hives because they are weak, I'm emergency feeding because I know they didn't get full enough in the fall to last them the winter. Is that ideal? Of course not. Our fall flow didn't really materialize, so I was feeding them sugar syrup to get the lighter hives up to winter weight when I discovered that my treatments hadn't worked and I needed to treat again. The treatment I used for that second round, ApiLife Var, didn't allow for me to feed while the treatments were on, and it is now too cold to feed liquid syrup, so I'm left with feeding solid sugar as my only recourse.

It is not uncommon that populous hives have high mite counts. Those that treat do it early fall to beat the numbers down before the queen lays up the nest with winter bee brood.
A word... emergency feeding implies the colony is out of resources and it is now an emergency. This time period is closer to spring usually after you have checked the hive.
Another word... If you are feeding syrup they need space and temperatures to dry it.
Final word... Sugar crystals cannot be stored and the bees must have water to use it. It's primary use is to raise spring bees and sustain life until the brood hatches and can go get nectar for the new season. A balanced hive (bees to honey) never needs sugar crystals.

.30WCF · December 06, 2021, 07:27:35 AM

15. I don?t recognize what you have the mouse guard attached to between the bottom board and first deep. What is that?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The15thMember · December 06, 2021, 10:52:02 AM

Quote from: .30WCF on December 06, 2021, 07:27:35 AM
15. I don?t recognize what you have the mouse guard attached to between the bottom board and first deep. What is that?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It's a slatted rack. It basically creates a dead air space right inside the entrance to help with keeping warm in the winter and gives them a place to fan and expand the cluster to keep cool in the summer.